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Awful rapper, but that beat is amazing... Reminds me of a slightly more trappy Neptunes.

EDIT: Awful was maybe too much, sorry to the fans. I explain my opinion in a later comment.




Out of ignorant curiosity, what makes him awful (in the negative sense)?


Awful was too much. Should have said average. Also, I'm judging him from this song only.

His main problem is the simple rhyme schemes. His lines are basically long sentences that rhyme at the end. He also frequently makes long pauses (a criminal offense in hiphop, IMO).

Allow me the use of a simple example to show you the difference between him and an amazing MC (rhymes are marked as -):

> Macklemore:

I call that getting tricked by a business, that shirt's -hella dough-

And having the same one as six other people in this club is a -hella don't-

Peep game, come take a look through my -telescope-

Trying to get girls from a brand? Then you -hella won't-

> Nas:

It ain't hard to -tell-, I -excel- then -prevail-

The mic is contacted, I attract -clientele-

My mic check is -life or death-, breathing a -sniper's breath-

I exhale the yellow smoke of buddha through -righteous steps-

Deep like the -Shining-, sparkle like a -diamond-

Sneak a Uzi on the -island- in my army jacket -lining-

Hit the Earth like a comet –invasion-!

Nas is like the Afrocentric -Asian-, half-man, half--amazing-

Cause in my physical I can -express- through -song-

Delete -stress- like -Motrin-, then -extend- -strong-

I drink Moet with Medusa, give her shotguns in -hell-

From the -spliff- that I -lift- and -inhale-, it ain't hard to -tell-

---

Also note the abundance of alliterations in Nas' quote.

EDIT: fixed formatting

EDIT2: couldn't resist doing the whole verse for Nas. Illmatic is so good...


Here's a pretty good YouTube video I've found that explains what separates the great rappers from the average rappers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miIxNCn-vjY


That's, at best, one thing that can separate good writers from average writers. Great rappers don't necessarily need to have complex rhyme schemes, and a complex rhyme scheme does not a great rapper make. Neither does a complex rhyme scheme alone make a great writer, as content and the use of various literary devices come into play as well.

IMHO, the mark of a truly great rapper is the ability to become an instrument on the track while still communicating a great deal in a small number of words. Flow and presence are as important as lyrics and rhyme schemes, and a great rapper is one who has at least 3 out of those 4 qualities at a high level, with the 4th not bad enough to detract from the others.


I tend to think you're kind of cherry picking his lyrics to support your point here: 4 lines of Macklemore versus 12 of Nas. There's plenty of internal rhymes and alliteration in: Rollin' in, hella deep, headin' to the mezzanine,

Dressed in all pink, 'cept my gator shoes, those are green

Draped in a leopard mink, girls standin' next to me

Probably shoulda washed this, smells like R. Kelly's sheets (Piiisssssss)

But shit, it was ninety-nine cents! (Bag it)

Coppin' it, washin' it, 'bout to go and get some compliments

Passin' up on those moccasins someone else's been walkin' in

And honorable mention for this: Your grammy, your aunty, your momma, your mammy I’ll take those flannel zebra jammies,

Saying "it's awful because it's not Illmatic" makes no sense; plenty of people would say Illmatic is the best hip-hop album of all time. So not living up to that standard doesn't make it awful.


> I tend to think you're kind of cherry picking his lyrics to support your point here: 4 lines of Macklemore versus 12 of Nas.

I initilly had just 6 Nas lines (which were comparable in number of words to Macklemore's 4). Regarding cherry picking, I honestly picked 4 random lines. I don't have the time to do a full statistical analysis, although that would be really interesting.

> Saying "it's awful because it's not Illmatic" makes no sense; plenty of people would say Illmatic is the best hip-hop album of all time. So not living up to that standard doesn't make it awful.

Fair enough. In my defense, I did upgrade from "awful" to "average".


Listening to It Ain't Hard to Tell and Thrift Shop I can unequivocally hear a difference in the style and flow, where I could understand why you'd say Nas has more talent as a rapper.

However, I find the Macklemore song more enjoyable precisely for the reasons that make him a bad rapper stylistically. Looking at the lines from each you've quoted, other than the 3rd line from Macklemore I immediately get exactly what he's communicating in the song. Nas's song is much more like a poem, I understand the metaphors and get the general gist of the song after reading your lyrics, but on a quick listen I wouldn't have much of an idea of what the song is even about.

Maybe it's just a storytelling vs. poem artistic difference. Or maybe Macklemore is just more approachable for casual listeners who aren't really that connected to hip hop.


The worst part, in my opinion, is the refrain/chorus/hook/whatever; it sounds really stilted, especially the "po-cket". The last line is a non sequitur; why is only having $20 awesome, enough to warrant an expletive? Then there's the missed opportunity to rhyme "pop some tags" with "20 dollars in my bag" or something to that effect, rather than "pocket".

Maybe I just don't understand rap. :)


I think that's just being unreasonably pedantic -- I enjoy the Macklemore song, and couldn't give a darn about the Nas song.


I have no problem with that. Quality is subjective, love is subjective, technical ability isn't.


Man now I wanna know if there are any rappers out there exploring other modes of poetry. Someone doing the alliteration and kennings that make up the backbone of Beowulf, or the tight syllabic constraints of a haiku, instead of rhyme...


They're totally different styles of flow.

I find Macklemore's flow to be much closer to a prose spoken word style of flow than someone like Nas, Eminem, or Jay-Z. It's tough, perhaps misleading, to compare given that.


I also think he's awful and I would say it's mostly because of his lyrical content. It's a pretty common problem with indie rappers, it's hard to walk the line between "I'm not mainstream and I don't rap about drugs and cars" and "I'm really smug because I don't rap about drugs and cars and I love to recycle." I don't really care about drugs and cars but when I listen to music I don't want to feel like the artist is trying to impress with with how good a person he is.


OK, I'll grant that on a few songs the guy is practically preaching, but if you're getting that out of Thrift Shop I really think you need to turn the sensitivity meter way down. Other than the $50-for-a-T-shirt line, this song could just as easily be a mockery of thrift shops as a sincere ode to them.

IMO that's what great about the song... thrifting is a complex balance between "value" on the one hand and straight-up "cheapness" on the other and he walks the line the whole song with one funny zinger after another. The touch of sincerity at the end ensures that we know it's not just typical rapper "I'm richer than you" mockery and we close it out with a little fun. In this song, I just don't know what you're seeing.


I'm not getting that from Thrift Shop, I like Thrift Shop, I think the rest of the album is preachy.


people who define themselves only by what they aren't are wack


I'd hardly call him awful...... then again, Bob Dylan is an "awful" singer compared to Clay Aiken, but his lyrics make for great songs that speak to the listener at a deeper level. Does he have the speed of Eminem, or the flow of Lil' Wayne? No, but he doesn't have to.

Steve Vai is a fantastic guitarist, but his music BLOWS. I would way rather listen to someone who isn't quite as talented in delivery but creates, on the whole, superior music.


Bob Dylan vs. Clay Aiken, the showdown!


"Awful rappers" don't make it to the top of the charts, especially unsigned ones. I think it's safe to say your opinion on his abilities to rap are in the minority.


Awful rappers make it to the top of charts on a regular basis. Rap music sells because of the beat and, to a lesser extent, the hook. Macklemore isn't awful, but as rappers go he's nothing too special. His hustle should be admired as should his ear for beats.


topping a chart requires a plurality not a majority. 98.9% of people could hate him with every fiber of their being and he'd still top, as long as their votes were evenly distributed across 99 other songs.


I don't disagree I just don't see how this means he could be "awsful". I think "awful" is an awfully sensational word for describing someone who is famous, playing on the radio, makes it to #1, and isn't even signed. Awful is me trying to rap.




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