Citing classic great replacement theory rhetoric on the 'data of a disappearing people' is not compelling. Miscegenation is very human that happens in every society. Ethnicity and culture is mutable and always will be. People move and intermingle. That is human. Trying to artificially isolate a group of people with a particular set of genes is unnatural, gross, and eventually leads to genetic stagnation.
Your whataboutisms are weak. Other dominant ethnic groups can be supremacist. Backwards logic is not limited to white peoples.
I didn't move from anything. The concept of white europeans being intentionally erased by a concerted immigration effort is non-sensical.
Which group of people have existed for thousands of years? Be specific, then I'll point out the multiple times in history that they've intermingled with other cultures and societies to form new ones.
Ethnically replacing a population isn't happening and is a false premise that I'm not going to continue debating as if it has any merit.
My 'worldview' is not an opinion. It's a historical observation of humans and their physical and cultural migration patterns.
Your argument really isn't any different than the conspiracy theory as the alleged end result and preventative measures are indistinguishable. You just don't want to be associated with it because its been thoroughly debunked as racist swill.
Similar data has been shown about WASP identity in the U.S. to which I say, the only people who care are not serious or intelligent people. Like you're so afraid and incapable of coping with change that you have to enact mass violence against immigrants to preserve some perverted since of identity.
Cultural and ethnic shifts are happening, have always happened, and will continue to happen, even as far right wing brains atrophy in their attempts to stop the inevitable.
Are you willing to enact great suffering and violence upon many people just to maintain your artificial idea of what it means to be a certain nationality, frozen in some arbitrary time? Because, historically, that’s what we’ve seen it takes. Segregation. Camps. Apartheid.
> Linking to that Wikipedia article doesn’t change the fact that the data obviously show Europeans will become a minority in almost all of their homeland countries within the next 50 years. It’s irrefutable.
Where do my quarter-Mexican, quarter-Italian, quarter-Croatian children fall in that census? Are they white? Are they a minority, or not? Does it matter how Mestizo their grandmother was? What if she was indigenous?
Hopefully the next generation ignores retards that hold on to ideas of ethnicity like they’re some sacred line in the fight between good and evil and just fucks like all their ancestors did and life moves on.
> it’s a very human desire that every nation shares
Nations are a very recent construct in the history of the world. Your appeal to nature is audaciously ignorant.
Which went through a bloody religious partition in 1947 to become two separate countries because of incompatible competing cultures not able to live together. And one country promptly wiped out the other culture almost completely to become a mono-culture. And that enmity between the two countries (cultures) follow to even now with wars and other hostilities.
What is called multiculturalism in India is a mix of indigenous sub-cultures who share many similarities, which the different cultures of EU/Europe can be considered to be following as well.
> two separate countries because of incompatible competing cultures not able to live together.
India has one of the world's largest muslim population. Pakistan separated due to religion and not culture. In fact Pakistani has Punjabis that are quite similar to Indian Punjab and Bangladesh & Indian West Bengal has quite similar cultures.
> What is called multiculturalism in India is a mix of indigenous sub-cultures who share many similarities
Are you claiming that Assam, Gujarat, Tamil Nadu and Bengal cultures are the same? They dont even share the same scripts (and in case of Tamil it is even a different root language)! They may be sharing same religion for majority of people, but that does not make it a subculture.
Existence of a minority currently doesn't negate the strife it passed through when those minority numbers were much bigger. Which still exist in regions where the numbers swing the other way - kashmir.
"Indigenous sub-cultures who share many similarities" doesn't mean "cultures are the same". All their current scripts originating from the same Brahmi script is part of that shared culture.
Your example of multiculturalism is more in line to the indigenous cultures throughout EU/Europe sharing similarities. While the context of European discussion on multiculturalism is on migrants and their culture.
Ethnicity and culture is mutable and always will be. People move and intermingle. That is human. Trying to artificially isolate a group of people with a particular set of genes is unnatural, gross, and eventually leads to genetic stagnation. Your thinking is backwards and unsustainable which is why movements espousing these views always fail.
No because to great replacement theory supporters it’s not actually about nationality, like they claim. It’s about skin color. Dark Germans are not actual Germans to them, which is why they want them gone.
The obvious solution to this fake “ohhh everyone is immigrating to XYZ!” panic is obviously just making citizenship easier to achieve.
It’s the same in the US. Too many people are undocumented? Okay, so document them, problem solved. But the right won’t do that, because they are lying to you. They don’t care about documentation or illegal immigration, they care about skin color and white purity.
Germans are people having a German passport. They will not be a minority.
There is already no single German ethnicity as the history and culture has been diverse regionally.
Stopping legitimate refugees is extreme in my view (against human rights). What you are doing is classic right wing rhetoric mixing legitimate refugees and illegitimate into one pool.
> "To deny the existence of an ethnic group and culture which has existed for thousands of years."
Noone is denying the existence of Germans in Germany. Germans are a product of their current culture.
Ethnocide is describing the erasure of culture, not the organic evolution of it.
I don't wear the same clothes as my grandparents did, I don't eat the same food, don't do the same work, don't have the same social life.
This is my culture, I am a product of it, my grandchildren will have a different culture. It is arrogant to assume my culture is the "peak" of my countries' culture (or "ethnicity"), just as it is not the place of my parents or grandparents to claim as such.
What is propagated here is that Germany (or whatever nation) needs to proactively reject the coexistence of other cultures within its borders for the fear of any kind of impact on itself in the future, taking effort to (depending on the age of who you ask) preserve or reverse its current state. THIS is genocidal language.
I don't care at all about ethnicity, but that sentence is part of the problem. Lawfully spoken it's a tautology, but that's not the concern people have. They are concerned that the German culture get erased within a few generations, because to many people with a too different cultural background enter the society.
That's a legitimate concern nobody really wants to address.
> concerned that the German culture get erased within a few generations
It seems to me that you do not know what ethnicity means.
> They are concerned that the German culture get erased within a few generations, because to many people with a too different cultural background enter the society
I addressed that by saying there has never been a coherent German culture
> I addressed that by saying there has never been a coherent German culture
Do you think that's true for German in particular or generally for countries? Like, do you think there isn't something like French or Italian culture? I always found it very weird how people think that Germany is somewhat special in that regard that we somehow ended up without having a coherent culture.
This a US centric platform here and so many words in the US come from Germany. I just learned that "Rucksack" (for large hiking backpacks) has become part of the English language in some regions. We totally need to introduce "Döner" as well.
It's not random words that join other languages.
As far as I understand there are groups in China accusing the Chinese government of ethnic erasure. China’s "Law on Promoting Ethnic Unity and Progress," which took effect on July 1, 2026, codifies the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) policy of cultural assimilation.
> Yet to deny the existence of Chinese culture or Chinese people would not only be extremely offensive, it would be genocidal language.
Please read the definitions of genocide and ethnic erasure again. I do not deny anything, I just say i believe it didn't exist.
Are you really going to sit here and pretend if the place you grew up in and invested your life began changing very drastically in a short time frame you wouldn’t be concerned for things you cherish? Why must the liberals always pretend to be inhuman when trying to discuss human rights? Refugees need homes and love and Germans are allowed to care about their culture.
Every place changes drastically. My country does not have an immigrant influx but is a completely different country from 20 years ago. Every person has what need as an excuse to become "conservative".
The changes are a constant everywhere. Using that as an excuse to hate is political manipulation.
Is it the case that all people concerned with preserving that with which they are familiar, in all circumstances, are hateful? Because there doesn’t seem to be a way for someone to express sentiment or care for a time and place without someone like you coming in to deliver that precise unfounded moral judgment. I will assume there IS a way to both be attached to something you care about and also be European so please just tell us what that way is so we can move forward. Because the longer people are scolded and called monsters for being attached to little delights they have grown accustomed to that might be changing, the more they will simply begin to identify as monsters. Let’s make room for different points of view.
You just can't stop the change. Much less decide how it will change. Hating different people and blaming them for your unhappiness won't solve the issue.
Think about it: 20 years ago you weren't a hateful person, that also changed. Why not get back to an older version of yourself? I'm sure at the time you thought things were amazing, there was already a bunch of frustrated middle aged men hating what you now love and miss.
Neither the person you respond to nor me wrote anything that indicates hate for anybody, this comes completely out of your head with no connection to the posts you are reacting to.
Of course having seen this you will still glaze your eyes over and insist nobody has ever made the accusations I claimed they did. Because none of this is about discussion but beating people into submission.
That wasn’t what I asked. I was asking for the way you will allow people to express themselves so that they can. As it stands, it feels like people assume there is one right way to think and no others need be considered.
Tellingly, your response to that exact question was “just get over it.” No. Sometimes you also must consider views you don’t hold.
I wasn’t talking about freedom. I was talking about trying to have a mature conversation with people who haven’t willingly severed their forebrains.
I made the claim that Europeans have a right to miss times and places that have gone by. The responses have all been to either suggest this is problematic for unstated reasons or to journey off as you did into a truly unrelated land of non sequitur.
It's not about the law, but about discussion. Many people will immediately level your as hateful, X-phobe, fascist and other stuff as soon as you deviate from their opinion.
That's why the actual fascists like AfD have become so strong. Destroying the middle ground only serves the extremists.
> They are concerned that the German culture get erased within a few generations, because to many people with a too different cultural background enter the society.
That's how German culture as it is was created in the first place. And that's how the future German culture will be created, ad infinitum.
One can argue about refugees, I myself see that critical, but we are in dire need of more regular migration for demographic reasons and because the general lack of work force in multiple sectors like health care.
Ethnic erasure is a crazy concept, we are mixing ethnically for centuries and who cares about color of eye or skin anyway? What we need is cultural preservation and coherence to some degree. So we should improve on refugee laws - which btw the green party had started before they were bullied out of government by the elites.
Cultural preservation is for museums when it can no longer be organically sustained. Coherence is as non-sensical as trying to preserve eye and skin color. Culture is mutable and always will be. You might as well try to stop the tide
Culture is as mutable as borders of nations. Culture and nations are often seen as synonymous, to the point where one often get defined by the other.
Valuing a nations culture, values in society, borders, and maintain coherence within society are not far right idea. All political platforms strive more or less for those things, through they do differ on what values they want to focus on and deploy different strategies.
Preservation not in the stricter sense, but meant as "reasonable slowly moving culture" as it implies stability. You also need coherence to some degree to maintain a functional society. As an hypothetical extreme example imagine one half of the population not even understanding the language of the other half, such a society would break apart real quick.
Your assertion on coherence for a functional society and your extreme hypothetical is fallacious. Multiple governments and societies across the globe operate effectively without a single national language.
The united states for example, current situation acknowledged, saw a meteoric rise even with, perhaps even because of a rich cultural tapestry that could be in no way described as coherent. Sure there are large blocs of cultural identity across multiple regions, but that's about it, and even then that's been on the decline for some time.
The "United States" are united states, because the vast geographic extend and for a relatively loose coupling of the nation for this reason. China on the other hand uses suppression and force to keep the country somewhat coherent.
Idk about India. Russia is just not densely populated for the most part.
Some German states also have multiple official languages, that by itself is not the example I made.
A society needs a common ground the foundation. If a democracy or equal rights for everyone is desirable and other things.
However, violence, intimidation and human rights violations during immigration and customs enforcement in order to pump hateful and jingoistic populist support is a rightwing idea. The steelman for it is that it “intimidates” would-be immigrants, but the counterargument is that it’s senseless strongman violence enacted on desperate people[1] running from terrible situations that ironically the US have had a direct hand in manufacturing.
This is quite common to far-right rhetoric:
- You agree that we should [very mild and centrist idea, commonplace across the world]
- Good, now that you agree then you should have no opposition to [human atrocities]
Edit: [1] and once you’ve built your apparatus for violence against migrants, and you’ve successfully dissuaded the migrants who are marginally less desperate, you’re now committing heinous crimes against the most desperate migrants, in a vicious feedback loop of unimaginable suffering. Like forcing a woman and her child who were fleeing sex trafficking into a camp under fluorescent lights where the woman will be raped, her child taken away from her, and both ending up with substandard care for infectious diseases that they catch.
That's neither a left nor right position. Many extreme capitalists, a right wing ideology, support open borders. Meanwhile China, North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam etc do not seem to have open borders / liberal migration policies
If it costs you 200k pounds to house a single person, it sounds like the main issue isn't the immigrant/refugee but your economic system. What makes that far right is blaming the other for your society's greater ills
> What is so wrong with legal immigration rather than illegal?
Nothing, but you have to be sure when they say "we want to get rid of the illegal immigrants" they don't really mean "we want to make all immigration from shithole countries illegal and get rid of people from those places", because they like to play those word games. This is what happened in the US.
People married to immigrants, who love immigrants, who work with immigrants, and even immigrants themselves heard Trump say "We want to deport criminal immigrants" and voted for that.
Next thing you know they're deporting your wife. Then they start chasing away foreign students, and companies who want to work with and hire foreigners are put on shit lists. Then they start narrowing pathways to legal immigration to create more strain on the system. Then they remove protected status from legal immigrants creating a population overnight who are illegal. Then they start looking at modifying the Constitution to change what makes someone a citizen in the first place, and whether they can retroactively strip people of that right. Then they start looking at naturalized citizens to denaturalize them.
Eventually they start going after political opponents who are immigrants, raiding their homes and threatening to deport them and their families.
These are not hypotheticals, it's where the US went in fewer than 2 years since giving the "just no illegal immigration, what's wrong with that?" crowd free reign to do whatever they want. And we specifically got here by taking the reasonable idea that illegal immigration is undesirable and running with it until the anti-immigration problem is far worse than the illegal immigration problem.
So if you think 200k to house an immigrant is bad, if your country is anything like the US (it is) soon enough you're paying billions upon billions for an unaccountable domestic paramilitary force that deports people to foreign torture prisons and executes citizens in the streets. Then you have a real problem.
Yeah but Trump got in partly because Biden didn't do common sense stuff to keep things under control. I remember watching this 60 minutes bit on China running package asylum tours to the US Mex border and thinking this is dumb, Trump will win at this rate https://youtu.be/M7TNP2OTY2g
I'm a Brit and anti Trump and not too worried about immigration but you've got to have some common sense.
Right and they will common sense their way right to a secret police force. Because it's common sense that immigrants are dangerous and must be excluded from society.
At the end of the day, that administration ended with the most comprehensive immigration reform in decades being tanked by Trump because he wanted to run on immigration being a problem. He told his party to kill the bill, and they did. Nothing common sense about that.
