this is not my experience at all. I wonder if one of your tweaks is causing the software to get into a bad state. Likely worth reporting to Apple even if it feels like it's going into a void.
Which tweaks? This is stock macOS 27 on a stock machine, with of course my development stack on top. I have already tried reinstalling the OS. Besides that, everything else has been configured appropriately in system settings and profiles using Ansible, so that I know exactly what configuration state my machine is in. There's nothing weird I am doing to the system processes other than now using App Tamer to prevent the processes from continuing to use multiple cores while I'm trying to use my machine.
I do feel like my complaints go to the void, and honestly I have seen the kind of responses people get on the Apple support forums and it gives me the same ick that Microsoft's does. And lately I'm just going to get someone's canned, patronizing LLM-generated resume-building response. My only hope out of this mess is Gravity Linux catching up and adding full SEP and thunderbolt support. Once that happens, I'm gone.
I do wonder about the prevalence of my experience vs yours. I can quickly find hundreds of threads across various platforms which confirm my experiences. From what I have been able to ascertain, my experience is increasingly common if not more common than yours. Hard to tell.
You said you were running App Tamer, and I presumed it was doing something unusual, however looking into it, it appears to be using public APIs, so it shouldn't be causing issues.
There's a lot of Macs out there. I would be surprised if that's the common experience for users, however, I fully admit that my sample size is small.
And I totally hear you on the frustration for reports these days. I set my expectations to be that it's a tally mark in some database somewhere with the hope that enough tally marks means a human looks at it, but it's so disheartening when you've spent such a large amount of money on something.
Well this is a software issue, all of the Macs out there run the same operating system, the same software. This can't an issue of a defective Mac. I also have an M2 which is giving me the same issues.
I am right now using my M5, on low power mode on a flat surface and it's almost too hot to type on. I have Codex open, just idling, Firefox and Logseq.
All of the offending processes at the top of activity manager are currently system processes: duetexpertd, mediaanalysisd, MenuBarAgent, WindowServer, Spotlight Engine, Time Machine, etc. A lot of these deal with caches, files, indexes. I suspect the root problem is a shared internal philosophy which regards the owner of the machine as a second-class citizen to the system.
It is bewildering given that I do not want the majority of "features" this tangled mess is providing. Issues such as bad caches, misbehaving files or directories, etc. are likely not the culprit since I experience this on fresh OS installs across two MacBooks. In the sense that if it is those issues, it's a system issue which needs addressing, and not PEBCAK. I have Siri disabled, Time Machine off, iCloud off, all iPhone integrations I can adjust are off, etc. Yet these processes increasingly dominate my computer.
I do appreciate you engaging with me on this and I hope I haven't come across as confrontational.
> all of the Macs out there run the same operating system,
Wrong. Lots of Mac users skipped the Liquid Glass OSes. I was one until I bought an M5 that came with it. In fact, I was two versions behind on my M1 because the one before Tahoe also offered nothing that I wanted.
> the same software.
This referring to third-party software (my interpretation) is also wrong. People have wildly different setups, at least among us nerds.
> This can't an issue of a defective Mac.
Again, you don't know that. But your comment later on about two models having said issue is concerning. That said, there's a high likelihood that you run the same software on each.
> I am right now using my M5, on low power mode on a flat surface and it's almost too hot to type on.
If that's the case, I begin to suspect that the physical sensitivity that you mentioned in a different comment is the source. If that's the case, I'm empathetic cause it'd really suck to have that reaction. I can only make my M1 hot enough to noticeably warm up (or get hot) when slamming the CPU / GPU. I would hate for it to feel that way to me during normal use and you have my genuine sympathy if that's your experience on a machine running at normal levels. And if that's it, then get an external kbd and mouse. Not an ideal solution, but it sounds like the best option. Not portable. I know. But I'm looking for solutions here and there may be some compromise needed.
> Wrong. Lots of Mac users skipped the Liquid Glass OSes.
I said the same operating system, not the same version of that operating system. Please make sure you're correctly reading my comment before criticizing it.
> This referring to third-party software (my interpretation) is also wrong. People have wildly different setups, at least among us nerds.
Your interpretation is wrong, I am talking about system software, this entire time I've been explicit that this is an Apple daemon and system software issue.
> Again, you don't know that. But your comment later on about two models having said issue is concerning.
Correct, I don't know anything at all 100%. What I do know is I have two laptops worth $10k between them which both have a ton of issues that others online have corroborated and which seem to be tied to 26 and 27 especially. And that these issues all trace back to several Apple daemons. I also am well aware of what 26 and 27 introduced, and can connect the dots. My theory is a solid theory until proven otherwise, but sure, if you want to be smart, literally anything is possible.
> That said, there's a high likelihood that you run the same software on each.
I have already stated in this thread that I have accounted for this extremely obvious possibility while debugging, and assuming I'm an idiot who has not considered this already is patronizing and unhelpful.
> If that's the case, I begin to suspect that the physical sensitivity that you mentioned in a different comment is the source
I hope you think I am capable of reading temperature gauges and differentiating between heat and any additional painful sensation on top before opening my mouth about this issue on a public forum. I also have a partner who I have asked to touch my machine plenty of times to gauge her reaction. I'm not saying these machines get mildly warm. I am saying they get hot.
> I can only make my M1 hot enough to noticeably warm up (or get hot) when slamming the CPU / GPU
Yes, and if you read my comments, you would know that my complaint is that this is exactly what multiple system processes are doing. You would also have seen that I already mentioned I use external peripherals but that I am also often on the go. It is hilarious to suggest that the compromise needs to come from my end when my extremely expensive workstation cannot even idle without sometimes getting warm or hot.
Context clues go a long way. I said the same operating system, not the same version of the same operating system. I can't help it if you want to read something that isn't there.
Have you tried not fucking about with all the processes? All my Mac’s run fine and I haven’t fucked with their settings. You’ve fucked with your settings and they all run fucked. “it’s a fresh install”. No you just acknowledged it’s a fresh install that you have immediately put in a very non default state.
I already mentioned I've wiped the OS and I said I recently installed App Tamer to deal with the ongoing problem. Recently. So yes, I have in fact tried not fucking about with all the processes.
> You’ve fucked with your settings and they all run fucked
No, I think what happened is you lack adequate reading comprehension and would rather not interpret comments in good faith and decided to jump the gun and chastise a fictional version of myself.
> No you just acknowledged it’s a fresh install that you have immediately put in a very non default state
No. I shouldn't need to explicitly spell this out. And if you're not sure, you can ask instead of coming in hot with off-base assumptions and attitude. You can rest assured that I know what I'm fucking doing, man. I know how to isolate behavior, eliminate possibilities and debug systems, it is literally my profession. Assume a lot less, please.
When I say I wiped my system, it obviously means to anyone competent that I observed my system after wiping it and before modifying anything substantial. You literally have no idea what my configuration is. What is "fucked with your settings" supposed to even mean? They are settings, my man. They are meant to be set. I know what each one does, and how it affects my system. My system is largely stock other than the user-level applications and environments I manage for work. If changing the theme or disabling iCloud/Siri is causing these problems then I'm going to throw my machine out the window and find a different profession. Come on, man.
I just want to give you props for how reasonably and reservedly you replied to this person. When I read their comment I just about put my fist through my monitor in sympathetic rage.
> I know what each one does, and how it affects my system.
That is a bold claim for someone complaining that their system doesn’t work. Look, I’m not apologizing for macOS but it does seem that they test the happy path these days and you either use it as they give it to you or it runs like ass. Like if you want a computer without Siri and without iCloud etc then get a Linux box.
There are people who are qualified to fuck about with their computer and there are people who aren’t and how you tell the difference is after they fucked about with it they don’t fucking complain about it not working. (Because either it’s working or they understand that they fucked it up and they are choosing the particular form of the fucked-upness because they got some benefit).
You are the worst kind of corporate apologist. You don't sound qualified to have this conversation at all. You're highly emotional and talk like a fucking idiot. Buzz off.
Holy hell, shut up. It was clearly stated that the “fucking with” of the computer happened after and because of the “fucked up” state of the computer. Your hypothesis is ruled out by the laws of causality and the arrow of time, and moreover if we violate all logic to assume your hypothesis is true, you are still wrong because if it was not fucked, he wouldn’t have fucked with it.
But somehow you are possessed of such inexhaustible and unwarranted confidence that you have not even noticed your claim is both nonsense and impossible, and furthermore you feel justified in serving this impossible nonsense with a side of condescension!
This is such an abject failure of reason and decorum that the only course of action to positively contribute that I can suggest to you is to not contribute at all, i.e., shut up.
I assume you’ve never done technical support. The customers who think they know what they’re doing fuck things up so much worse than those that don’t. They don’t listen and they do so much more damage. They know they’re right and they are so entitled to what they think should work. They’ll tell you what they did and the logs or outcome or reproduction will prove otherwise. The loudest ones are always the ones who fucked it up the most - it’s just defensiveness.
You assume incorrectly. Furthermore, your description of tech support is wrong, so much so that I half-suspect it is you who has never done technical support. I mean, come on, one of the mantras of every tech support division I’ve worked in has been some variant of “believe the user”. What you are describing is pretty much the very first attitude you learn is simply unhelpful and ineffective, apart from also being aggravating for the customer.
You are projecting so much, friend. And assuming even more. You literally sound unqualified. I work on computers for a living. The amount of contempt and arrogance you're displaying is nothing short of sad.
