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Ask PG: What is the list of banned sites and why are they banned?
79 points by swombat 3214 days ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 49 comments
There's been a few cases recently where I found an interesting article to submit here and was unable to submit it. The site appears to accept the article, but the story remains invisible to everyone and to me appears to have no comment box. I've verified that this happens when other people submit those URLs. Here are a couple of examples of apparently legitimate, genuinely interesting articles being blocked:

http://www.infochachkie.com/thescrew/

http://gawker.com/5161908/ceos-500000-salary-burns-startup-into-fire-sale

I'm not arguing that those sites necessarily need to be unblocked. Perhaps, on the whole, the content from these sites is not useful enough, or too much gets submitted, or someone spammed one of these sites here, or any number of other reasons.

However, in the interest of transparency (which this article suggested is an important component of a successful community culture : http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html ) I think that the list of banned sites, along with the reason why they're banned, should be made public.

Or, if there's a good reason why it shouldn't be public, then I would love to know it.




Some sites are banned, obviously because their signal-to-noise ration is unacceptably low. There is also a policy discouraging content that simply paraphrases another link ("linkjacking").

Perhaps linkjacking is perfectly acceptable for banned sites. From time to time they may actually write something useful and informative. Would summarizing it with a link to the original be an acceptable post?

This makes sense to me. I don't have a lot of popular blogs like CH in my feed reader, but I rely on others to let me know when Jeff writes something I would find interesting. same idea here.


Don't forget the one in the source code that will automatically get your account banned! (I leave posting it here as an exercise to the reader.)


Priceless! Thank you for making my day.



Which ?may? lead to a site "whose name we dare not speak?... which loads only if "http://www." is removed from it... and then displays message:

"Down until 4/19/08 due to bandwidth limitations!

Want to advertise?"

This entire discussion is feeling very surreal - with innuendos about poison-named domains that ban one's account. I do like the idea of openness about banning policies. Why force people to stumble around in the dark and then be punished when they step in the dog piles?

[Or is there a concern about legal concerns if one "vilifies" a site by pronouncing it banned?]


I can't see the site, but it looks like some kind of dumb meme:

http://images.google.com.au/images?q=internet%20serious%20bu...


I don't understand the joke. Can someone please explain?



That particular site had the Rickroll video and a nasty series of infinite javascript popups. So yes, I was Rickroll'd by Paul Graham, and it crashed my browser.


I have looked in the source code and haven't seen this? :/


I believe that he is talking about:

news.arc:1181-1182


For the curious, here are the lines:

http://skitch.com/swombat/bgqky/news.arc

I think it just ignores the comment, rather than autobanning.


Any reason why you didn't paste that code directly into your comment and took an image of the text instead?

Als, where can I get this code?


Could you please explain this one?


It's not true that killed stories can't be seen by anyone except the submitter. They can be seen by everyone else who has showdead turned on.

You can easily check whether a site is banned by submitting something from it and seeing if it gets killed immediately. I.e. if it's visible on the new page to someone who's not logged in. (You may have to wait a minute because the new page is cached.) Here is the complete list:

(gamenode.com tytka.blogspot.com fantasysportstrades.com mnhomerental.com downloadeverybodyhateschris.wordpress.com nickherbcpa.com cheepbaseballtickets.com infinitewraps.com freerotator.com copoff.org themmadigest.com mywirelessincome.com watchdollhouse.tv totalleathersolutions.com expofutures.com digital-scrapbook.net inlineseo.com orbitmerchantsolutions.com hostexcellencereview.org drama20show.com pain-killers.net topicster.com websiteapplications.wordpress.com fixmywindshield.com freepspgamesdownload.wordpress.com co.cc tech4news.com kidsites.com seowhitehats.com smukiziedi.lv group-halloween-costume-ideas.wetpaint.com hair-straightener-reviews.com goarticles.com buybestanabolicsteroids.com flowersofindia.net downloadstargateatlantisepisodes.wordpress.com downloadgossipgirlepisode.wordpress.com thelogcabinshop.co.uk downloadknightriderepisodes.weebly.com aimenviro.com bestinfoproductsonline.com ibcsingapore.com end2endconsultant.net refinanceme.com.au com-http.com 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cardcafe.com wrestling.funpics.in)

The great majority are banned for spamming and/or voting rings. Others (like url shortening services, squidoo, etc) are banned because they're often used by spammers. Others are banned for the reasons I listed in that recent essay: linkjacking, being offtopic, or characteristically being fluff.


Credit to PG for transparency and also for keeping YNews on the high road.

I did want to browse some of these sites just to see why they might be banned (mapsofindia.com?) and it's a nuisance to have to copy and paste URLs so I parsed that list into one with link tags and put it here:

http://douglassims.org/banned.html


You might want to use nofollow. Most of these sites are spammers who posted to HN to improve their pagerank, which is what you're doing if you link to them without nofollow.


Thank you. Fixed now.


Thanks, but your links are broken - you need to add "http://" before them...


got it... thanks. Fixed now.


There are many Browser addons for this. I like "Text Link" - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1939


Interesting to see vox.com in there, being that it's just a blogging service that could contain a legitimate blog. Why all of vox.com, but not all of wordpress.com, livejournal.com or blogspot.com?


Because in those urls the account is a subdomain, so for them a site can be defined as e.g. x.wordpress.com. I don't want to get into representing sites as regular expressions if I can avoid it.


Yes. I realized that was the case. Maybe vox.com didn't have subdomains at the time you banned it, but it does now.


Google Argentina? (google.com.ar)


com.ar, is not google.ar or google.com or google


It's Google. Like "www.google.co.uk" is for UK.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.ar (and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.uk )


I thought the same at first, but is Argentina doing something abnormal with .co.ar and .com.ar? According to this: http://www.nic.ar/ google.com.ar IS registered to Google. www.com.ar looks to be an ISP?


How is it "abnormal" to keep the same hierarchy as the main hierarchy? The countries that mix everything like .es tend to lose some vital functionality.

Also with all its deficiencies, the Argentinean NIC is free, as in free beer.


are you confirmed that all listed domain has been banned . i don't think so because they are indexed in google yet and having cached randomly . and how you have checked have you any tool or software you need to explain it not to give reason. its like that you are saying to a blind person that its night because its dark


For the short term, Erwin's "let's not make this reddit" is right. However, editor-oversight of this list and, more broadly, this site has drawbacks: sustainability, non-diversity, missed opportunity.

There are many news stories that are absolute tripe by our standards and yet yield good discussions, distinctions, related works, and counterpoints. There is an insightful response to even the worst tripe. It might be a detailed criticism for the author or submitter, an explanation of phenomenon, or a link to a better blog-post on the same issue. The problem isnt that our ethic is absent there, but that it's drowned out.

Build up a public system alongside editor intervention. Technical implementation or culture may be the things that make websites deteriorate, and we can change these. Try things out, and if they seem to work, let them take over to a greater extent.

Some ideas: * Deter 'rabble' from participating: * Make the site have a higher usability learning curve * Make the community extremely hostile to even potential stupidity. * Increase the 'cost' of upmodding: * Add a time-delayed reconfirmation for upmods * Limit upmods per day. * Pick up possible problems in a post or reply and ask for confirmation: "Here is a preview of your comment, possible bad grammer highlighted blue. We discourage 'memes', aolbonics, and old jokes; these are highlighted red. If these are false positives, please hit submit and a developer will address these issues." * Put "please upmod and post insightful and well-composed comments that expand on or offer alternative views to the story" directly under the 'add comment' button. * Add a 'criticize' field to stories and comments that would be visible or sent to the author, with "this is vague", "this could be shorter", "provide evidence", "the title is sensationalist", etc. * Add a mandatory preview button for posts and comments.


Hi swombat, Regarding gawker, as I remember, there was a discussion here whether to ban it, and most people were for the ban. The reason was the low quality of journalism and defamation tendencies in some of its articles. So gawker is indeed banned.


why not ban techcrunch on the same grounds then ?


Techcrunch is indeed pretty nasty sometimes, and I have criticised them here before, but it would be utterly ridiculous if hacker news, a news site for startups, banned one of the preeminent startup blogs.

Techcrunch is influential and as such it is relevant for many people here. You can ban a site that is nasty and irrelevant, but you cannot ban a very relevant site just because some articles are odious.

Banning should not be about morals, but rather about usefulness.


Noisy != useful

Moralistic != useful

But your mileage may vary.


Because TechCrunch is in bed with YCombinator, of course ;) http://uncov.com/ycombinator-techcrunch-butthappy

(Yes, this is a joke)


Yeah. As I said, I'm not objecting to the idea of sites being banned. That seems fairly reasonable to me. However, it'd be nice to know which sites were banned, and for what.

Gawker, I can totally understand. Infochachkie, on the other hand, seems like a pretty decent site so I'm not quite sure why they were banned. Are there others which were banned that we don't know about? Were they banned for a good reason? Can your own site/blog/etc get banned in a similar way? What are the criteria? What should you avoid doing? etc.


I'd be very curious to know what countries these people are coming from. I just did an analysis of social media spammers on StyleFeeder and would be curious to know how HN compares:

http://blog.tech.stylefeeder.com/2009/02/28/social-media-spa...

If you post the list of IPs that these folks are posting from, I have code ready to make pretty graphs and will share the results.


Infochachkie (www.infochachkie.com) does appear to be a legit startup site. There are no ads and, as far as I can tell, nothing is being sold.

Not sure why you would block this content. I discovered this site on HN and I have shared it with a number of my friends.

Is it possible you have too heavy a hand here? I scanned the long list of banned sites and most appear to be very smarmy (just based on the urls).


If its something truly ground breaking, just go and find the story on one of the other sites and post that.


I don't see what's wrong with Valleywag, I read it every day. It's hilarious, and interesting, and seems well-researched for a gossip site.


| ...gossip site.

Well there's yer problem right there.


I don't think any sites should be banned (articles will be flagged if need be).


keep in mind, it's nobody's full-time job to maintain this thing. there are "the editors" who police content, and i'm pretty sure pg is the only one that works on the site itself, including the code. a list of banned sites is an easy way to cut down on maintenance.

for what it's worth, i'm pretty sure uncov.com is one of the banned sites. i keep showdead turned on, and i've seen articles submitted from there from otherwise legitimate users, and they immediately go dead.


Though I'm kinda curious if it's possible to "unban" sites on a submission-by-submission basis. Sometimes sites that are generally bad have an interesting article once in a while. Can we "unflag" sites that are auto-banned and let an editor know that maybe they're worth making undead?


I agree. I might, if I were king of HN, create a playground of sites I thought ( or the community thought ) were irrelevant or 'least likely to succeed' ( they do this in high school year books! ( they imply it by having 'most likely to succeed')). Another thing, don't down vote comments; if a comment is bad then it will be on the lower end of the page and that should speak for itself. Down voting comments, I am fairly sure, will discourage hackers that have cool ideas to contribute but that may have been inspired to write a one liner 'Beavis and Butthead' style sentence. This is merely people having fun. I think this type of fun is being discouraged. If comments are offensive then remove the user. . .. Why is there a need to punish, in front of the public HN community, people that would like to say things that they thought was witty ( or for that matter share a link that they thought was witty at the time ). By down voting input that is not 'bannable' ( I don't think that was a word ) you are simply discouraging contribution ( either links or comments )( even if that contribution is below your threshold of content you would idealize on this site ) and that is 1) a method to shape the landscape of the of the site in the way you see appropriate 2) discouraging hackers ( they will either leave or comment less ) and shaping the content that they feel comfortable contributing. I have a feeling pg would say something like 'you can make your own site and create the rules how you see fit', and I would agree with that as well.


Check out reddit.com -- that's the website with the "wisdom of the crowds", "people having fun" and no editor intervention. And the wise crowds want lolcats and snarky one-line comments.


LOL, a lot of Hacker News readers have such a distorted superiority complex of themselves compared to proggit, have any of you actually spent much time with proggit. I dunno about before but works pretty damn good right now, and somehow I'd rather have nerdy startups getting my clicktracks than nerdy VCs. Let's not forget, the reason to be suspicious of groups like HR, VCs, and bean counters is because they really are suspicious-worthy, it's not just fantasy ;-)


Aargh. Trackpad + itty-bitty arrows = unintentional upmod. :-( I guess I'm forced to post an actual rebuttal now.

The only thing that really distinguishes news.yc from something like Reddit at this point is the high signal-to-noise ratio. No amount of flagging would be able to compensate for not banning any sites.




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