There are still some gaps, but for the most part, China is way past the "clone and copy" these days.
Knowledge has been assimilated and significant R&D efforts is being put in. If I look at Bambulalab, xTool or Makera, I see genuine designs, significant improvements in quality and price drops way beyond what cheaper labor can explain.
And it's also visible in other spaces: think DJI drones or CATL batteries in cars.
no one bothered to clone Sherline. Cheap mini mills and lathes that were the same cost, but were made out of actual castings and used more standard tools totally undercut Sherline.
Sad to see racist yellow scare bogeyman stuff going on at every little thing. You really think Sherline had some amazing hobby lathe IP that was just so far intellectually beyond what an educational powerhouse of a country with 1.6 billion people could ever come up with?
Yes, I agree that China can copy Sherline’s IP and it’s a form of theft. An estimated 70-80% of the parts can probably be made in China. If you would like a breakdown I can provide it.
Sherline, for example, specifies spindle nose runout of 0.0005 inch or less and spindle end play around 0.0002 inch or less, using two 20-mm ball bearings with adjustable preload. That’s only about 13 µm runout. A Chinese factory can absolutely manufacture that.
Manufacturers such as SIEG took conventional lathe architecture and mass-produced it.
There is nothing original going on there lots of copying
If you can quote spindle runout, you know perfectly well that there's no meaningful IP in this market segment. That would have been achievable by any number of manufacturers a hundred years ago.
It's a pure manufacturing cost play to make something precise enough, rigid enough, and light enough[0] while being inexpensive enough for the market segment it's aimed at.
Is it a bummer that a US manufacturer went out of business trying to make money at that play? Yes. Is there anything nefarious going on with IP theft? Absolutely not.
[0] This is being sold to customers who don't hire riggers to move their machines.
They can't. But how is that unfair? It's literally a choice we made.
And it's the one thing that unites every mainstream politician against Trump - they can't agree on tons of stuff, other than that we definitely should not be using tariffs to defend local manufacturers against Chinese (or any other) imports. I've been assured that those jobs are "not coming back." Well, big surprise - they're also not going to stop disappearing.
I agree some policy choices were made to get us in this situation. Biden largely left the first Trump era tariffs in place. The disagreements are on the broadness of them
This isn't "clones/copying," but rather "Chinese people making things." It isn't like they're stealing our exclusive "lathe technology." They're just making lathes.
It's certainly destructive to local companies, but that's what tariffs are for. If you think we should be making lathes, then throw tariffs on countries that make them cheaper. If that just moves the pressure to a consumer who still can't afford local lathes, stop handing free money to stockholders and real estate owners and start handing it to people who buy things.
This is all a bit of a strawman. Lathe technology as a concept isn’t being disputed as stolen. Tariffs don’t fix the copying problem. My point is the country in general has a policy of copying and stealing
But isn't this completely fine ? The US became an industrial powerhouse by doing the same. Even barred foreign inventors from obtaining parents in the US. The U.S. Patent Act of 1793 was explicitly structured to favor domestic industrial growth at the expense of foreign inventors. Provided total legal immunity within the U.S. for commercializing pirated ideas. Only when the US became #1, did international protection of its patents became a priority.
China merely followed the American approach towards industrial success.
The idea that ideas can be stolen and that doing so is wrong is fairly new and somewhat "unnatural". So the ethics of "stealing ideas" are not entirely well-defined. I think the only thing that almost everyone agrees on is that the person who had an idea first (or at least popularized it) should get recognition for it.
Huh? Patent systems go back hundreds of years! Yes nobody owns the idea of the lathe. We need to get past that. But for centuries, societies have recognized that someone who spends time and money developing a particular invention or manufacturing process can have legit rights to it
Its more: "Do as we say, not as we do". Lots of traditional techniques were appropriated and patented by the West and your nation deliberately ignored patents during its industrialization phase. But when the East that threw off the shackles of colonialism does so, oh my god, it is theft.
"Steal to get ahead, but suppress others who steal after you are ahead"
US removed the choke of colonialism 250 years ago and ignored patents freely until well into the 20th century. And even today, a foreign patent isn't automatically enforceable in America.
India had to fight extremely hard in USPTO to stop Indian turmeric from being patented. Perhaps you folks should go into Chinese offices and fight for years to be equitable.
I also found the GP ridiculous. China probably made more lathes this year than the US has had in its entire history. You can get a complete lathe chuck assembly for 25 bucks. A small casting for maybe double that. I bet you could build a functional system for 100 or less at a quantity of one, including logistics. And if you knew what you were doing and had a mill, hand tools or a 3D printer to start with, within 3 days. They do not need to steal anything, they already are the world's most knowledgeable nation regarding machining fundamentals, supply chain, design tradeoffs, and maintenance. They have more trained machinists than anyone. The notion Sherline had any unique IP or that China needed to copy them is laughable.
I worked for a North American company that moved manufacturing of precision industrial equipment to China to reduce costs circa 2006.
There was a lot of knowledge transferred and training as part of that. For what its worth we previously had trained our North American partners. China could definitely not make our equipment themselves at that point in time. We did retain some key technologies but most of it was moved over.
I don't see how anyone can deny that the Chinese got a lot of the know-how as part of the mass transfer of production to China. 90% of their manufacturing know-how is from the west.
If the point is that Sherline specifically today doesn't have any IP they might care about- sure. It's been copied/reverse engineered/"stolen" a long time ago. I don't know when the Chinese entered the hobbyist machining market but when they did I'm sure copying existing designs wasn't exactly a barrier, or stealing trade secrets, or ignoring patents.
I don't doubt that your company (or any other established manufacturer of non-trivial systems) moving production overseas will necessarily engage in training to support that transition.
However, this does not change the reality that Sherline made extremely basic machine tools. China makes superior and more complex machine tools than Sherline ever did: by far. This knowledge was not 'stolen' in any conspiratorial sense: they have produced metal lathes since the Tang Dynasty (618–907 CE) and modern engine lathes since the 1930s with significant national production since 1949 and CNC lathes since 1973. I should think Russia and China would have collaborated on early modern machine tool production, and this could not be characterized as 'theft'.
Today, most cutting tools, accessories, and machine tools are made in China. The notion China needs to steal knowledge from the west for general equipment is frankly laughable. For specialist equipment, yes there's a lot that Japan, Europe and the US lead in. However, I don't think that's in any way related to Sherline's former or current position as a budget/hobbyist focused entry-level brand.
"In 1970 Adelaide, Australia engineer Harold Clisby patented a novel lathe design that made use of aluminum and other metal extrusions. Clever techniques provided surprisingly good accuracy for such a low-cost production method. He made a modest number of machines and accessories himself.
In 1972 Melbourne engineer Ron Sher began production of what he called the "Sherline" lathe in Australia, as Ronald Sher Pty. Ltd. In 1973 Joe Martin of Martin Enterprises in San Marcos, CA, began importing the Sherline lathe to the USA. In 1974 Martin began manufacturing the Sherline lathe in California USA. In about 1979 the lathe business was separated off as Sherline Products, Inc."
The 1970's patents are long expired but the point is to show there's actually innovation in there despite the obvious simplicity.
I'm sure China could independently come up with better designs. But they do often just copy. Because it's easier. So "needs to steal knowledge" for simple designs/products? No. Steals? I mean you can buy Chinese literal copies of anything.
The Chinese are obviously very capable and pretty much everything and anything other than some very specialized bits are made in China. They got there partly via copying and pretty lax to non-existent IP protection. The Japanese did that before them. There are other aspects of how they compete which are possibly questionable (like poorer working conditions, environmental laws, etc.) Can't say anything specific about Sherline here but it's very hard for a western company to compete with China. Here is what Gemini says on this topic:
"Yes, Chinese manufacturers do produce machines that are widely recognized as direct clones of Sherline's precision lathes, mills, and small CNC setups. The most prominent example is Xendoll (Xendoll Tools), which manufactures a line of desktop and micro machine tools. Their manual lathes, mills, and CNC kits visually and functionally mimic Sherline’s classic designs. Target Market: These Chinese copies are marketed heavily toward education, STEM programs, hobbyists, and DIY makers. Design & Features: They replicate the compact footprint and modular configurations that made Sherline a staple for micro-machining small metal and plastic parts. The influx of these lower-cost overseas clones and cheap desktop CNC imports has heavily impacted the American micro-machining market. Under severe financial pressure from these imports, rising domestic manufacturing costs, and shifting hobbyist trends like the widespread adoption of 3D printing, Sherline announced in mid-September 2026 that it is winding down all US manufacturing. After 52 years in business, the company is expected to close its doors entirely by the end of 2026. While the Chinese copies provide a cheaper entry point for beginners, the machining community frequently points out the intellectual property implications of directly copying a storied American brand's legacy designs."
