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And there goes every single rational for having a security team at the disaster bunkers the billionaires are building


Congratulations! Your head of security has been elected president of the bunker. For your protection, no further votes will be taken


They’ll be armed Boston Dynamics robots soon


Bunker busters are not picky, and can be safely delivered from altitude autonomously.


That is why you need The Boring Company to drill your private bunker beneath a granite mountain. No bunker buster is going to reach the middle of a Swiss tunnel.


They'll thank you for digging your own grave and complete it for you by collapsing the entrance.


Would be nice if this kind of hate energy was directed at politicians, the military-industrial complex, and faceless oil barons once in a while.


It has been for 120 years.


Has it worked?


Why not all of them, you know?


You don’t think Anthropic belongs on that list? They’re working as hard as possible to plunder most of human creation and disturb all human life so that they can enrich themselves.


Personally I don’t really care where larpers direct their non action


Sees obvious capitalist revolution unfolding in society.

Ha! Look as these useless non-acting larpers!


We have different definitions of obvious. They've yet to do a single thing of note. In fact, as of yet they have less balls and conviction than the Jan 6th retards.


but not by the average citizen trying to desperately retain what shreds of democracy and control they have


Ukraine and Iran demonstrate what a shoe string budget can accomplish.


The key is to look and act innocent and to throw them some batteries, then when they are concentrating on their food you skip right past. They can smell fear so that's the one thing you shouldn't feel while you're doing all this.


Presumably they'll have stuff there the security team wants.


Like security guards' families.

Awful, but not without historical precedent.


Which precedent?

Grunts under coercion has a rich history that's still ongoing, but these sort of guards are those that would have both weapons and the guarded in their direct vicinity. I can't think of any historic example where this wasn't the loyalest of the loyal types.


There are plenty of people who have been killed by their own bodyguards, e.g., Indira Gandhi.


Yes, but in those cases - the assassinated generally trusted those who were assassinating them. If you're holding somebody's family hostage or otherwise coercing them, there's no trust and you're gonna get killed.

Grunts are regularly mistreated and coerced. You can kidnap people off the streets, throw them in a trench and make sure they don't run away by the presence of "motivational troops" in the rear (who kill their own side for fleeing) but you don't let those sort of troops anywhere remotely near the people responsible for their predicament for very obvious reasons, let alone when armed.


Fear the security guard who has nothing to lose.


I did almost write that! But if disaster really strikes, then just resources will be useful.


And who guards the guards family?

These billionaires who have always relied on the power of the state for their security and asserting their property are absolutely delusional if they think they can keep it without it.

When states collapse, the one who emerge victorious aren't the well-mannered business people, it's the warlords (a.k.a. the heads of organized crime).


I mean, if you were already a security guard before the apocalypse, it would kind of make sense to find a billionaire bunker for you and your family, and just continue being a security guard in order to stay there. Whatever that entails, the alternative is probably so much worse.


The security team have guns and aren't given a 2nd thought, kinda invisible even. They don't need to negotiate.



There have been plenty of times in history (almost all times) that physically weaker men have secured the loyalty of soldiers with wealth and influence during periods where strong centralized civic authorities did not exist.


But the soldiers didn't have the mobile phones then. This was possible by manipulation the information about reality those soldiers had.

For example, how Mallory can gain power over Alice and Bob who don't directly communicate.

First, Mallory tells Alice: "I am stronger than you. If you don't do what I say I'll kill you." So Alice decides to submit.

Then, Mallory takes Alice to Bob and says to him: "Together with Alice we are stronger than you, and kill you if you don't do what I want." So Bob submits.

This only works if Bob doesn't talk to Alice, otherwise they would together see the empty threat.

With more people, it becomes a bit trickier but hopefully you see how blocking communication helps to gain power over people. Often the blocking of communication is done through propaganda, e.g. Mallory might entice Alice and Bob to hate each other, so they wouldn't get together and figure he's the manipulator. Or Mallory might just kill someone randomly to motivate people not to talk to each other.

Anyway, this shows the importance of free speech (which is really a misnomer; it should be called a right to listen). If you can freely talk (and listen) to other people, you reduce your chances to being subjugated by someone.

(This is also why in a war, people are incentivized to dehumanize the other party and not to listen what they say, because together they could figure out that the real enemy are the war profiteers on both sides, colluding. And besides, killing is the most reliable way of silencing someone. That's why people should also universally reject killing - based on someone else's word - unless they are directly threatened themselves.)


Sorry, but I think you've kind of just dug yourself into some concept you think is neat but which doesn't really hold up. Like, this just doesn't hold up to scrutiny at all.

First, general power dynamics are in no way inherently predicated on misinforming people. That can help, but it's really quite a lot simpler than that: A commands B and C. A approaches D and says get in line or we'll kill you. D says OK or dies. ABCD approach E and repeat this process. The person with the most connections, actual real connections, wins. The challenge to building more connections than A is not having a cell phone, but rather attempting to find connections who aren't truly loyal to A, because anyone who is loyal will out you and have you killed for treason. Indeed cell phones make this harder, not easier, because they leave a paper trail of evidence that you were attempting to betray the existing group.

Second, mobile phones do nothing to change this dynamic in favor of the weak, and in fact, are one of the most powerful tools for cementing existing power structures ever created. They are both the ultimate channel to propagate misinformation, and are also 24/7 surveillance devices that will betray any attempt to conspire against those in power. If you want to foster rebellion against your evil overlords, your organization absolutely cannot use phones without giving themselves away, which puts you at a massive technical disadvantage. And even if you try to forbid members from using phones, they're so deeply ingrained into daily life that somebody will inevitably slip up and give the surveillance state info on your planned rebellion. I would go so far as to say we can expect to never see a successful rebellion against anybody with the level of surveillance as the US, in our lifetimes.


The end of Covid in China is interesting. Even the CCP, and their level of surveillance and control, were unable to maintain control of an entire population fed up with sheltering in place. If there aren't fair and open elections in 2028, it will no longer be the United States of America.


And there have been plenty of times when the armed thugs have staged a coup and overthrown their masters.

In the absence of civic order, personal relationships between the elites are what matters. Your thugs can easily take everything you own, but they don't inherit your relationships. A billionaire in an isolated self-sufficient bunker has nothing to offer to thugs who are already inside. A billionaire in a bunker that relies on trade with other nearby bunkers is in a much stronger position.


Don’t think those folks are union…


If civilization collapses, the billionaires are correctly assuming the security team will stop following SEIU strike authorization protocol.


They are perhaps incorrectly assuming the security team with all the weaponry will remain loyal to them.


Sure. Who knows.

But, historically, strongmen/chieftains have not had incredible trouble keeping their goons under control. Most threats from from palace coups not popular revolt. Most normal people in uncertain times like order and aren't going to flip the table on a system that gives them stability, food and shelter.


> But, historically, strongmen/chieftains have not had incredible trouble keeping their goons under control.

Sure. But some of them seize power from others on their way up via force.


Would "one of you promises the security team better conditions if they kill a rival" not be how palace coups usually work?


My recollection from Roman history is that was certainly a part of it, but that 'I command the palace guard, so I should command the empire' also played a large role.


> historically, strongmen/chieftains have

Yup, but those aren't the same people as the one who get to become tech billionaires.


And these meek little SV nerds are strongmen?


that's probably dependent on the specific genre of collapse we get to enjoy


Just pay them well enough. Or pay the people at the top a good amount of money to keep the people below in check and have some hope you can rise to the top for a small portion of the people.


If civilization collapses, money is useless


Pay them with chocolate rations or higher status bunk beds.




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