I highly recommend feeding all your proprietary data and confidential personal information into this model as quickly as possible. What could possibly go wrong?!
In terms of equivalence of suspicion, this is the external inference provider equivalent of getting free steak that was smuggled out of a grocery store inside somebody's pants.
I don’t understand this mentality which I see over and over again on here. It’s not like the US frontier labs are beacons of morality and transparency.
It’s also pretty accepted within this community that a lot of data fed to US tech companies ends up with the Israeli government.
Meanwhile the current US government headed by Donny Tango has done a very thorough job of proving itself to be about as predictable and dependable as a rabid dog on crack.
Throughout the events which have transpired since a certain orange charlatan took office it is objectively true that the Chinese government has portrayed itself as a much more stable and sane entity.
We really need to stop this elitism and recognise the reality.
It’s really about incentives more than morals. I know that, being in the US, if Anthropic steals my company’s trade secrets through model inputs contrary to our policy that I will (in theory) have legal standing and enforceable contracts against them. The same is not true against DeepSeek, and especially not against “Stealth”.
> It’s not like the US frontier labs are beacons of morality and transparency.
they are businesses, so respect wishes of customers who give them money, if someone learn they intentionally leak private information, its over for them.
they leaked ordinary citizens (meta)-data by government request, majority of who doesn't care about privacy. Its very different to leaking raw trade secret of large and powerful corporations.
To be fair to GP, they didn’t complain the model isn’t from the US. A “stealth” American model should be treated with the same suspicion, I think. The base of the argument isn’t affected by country of origin.
Some of it is miss information ( Turkey), some of it simply never happened. US is not dictatorship, one blah blah person(trum) can't do everything he wants.
Real military conflicts you mentioned are direct impact of chinese policies. They willing to fuel any evil government unless they are against west. Without Iran doing proxy wars middle east would be at peace.
Now the dry results of China VS US policies in regions since modern communist china establishment. What their policy produce.
cause-and-effect relationships 101.
What Evil China produce , and how that's related even to some invasions your mentioned.
General overview :
The post world war II period was the most peaceful time in modern history, leaded by US policies. with some mistakes like vietnam. but China did the same mistake and invaded Vietnam too anyways. Right now china goes into power. what their policies , their world looks like?
Korea. Their first action. Direct military invasion by Mao. The Result: terrorist state, that officially supports stealing, human trafficking, selling drugs, arms to middle east etc. It now directly destroying part of Europe sending giant, not precise ballistic missiles, that killing children , woman etc. the also send troops to kill more europeans, just because Putin paid them some money. North Korea would not exist without china nor from inception, nor up until recently. Due to that support we also have one extra nuclear country who's will even the most evil one will be blindly followed by their people.
The opposite of is ... South Korea, that brings to the world peace, technology, cars, phones. Poster child of china's policies vs poster child of USA policies.
Next Poster child is Iran.
Iran would not survive without China's support neither economically neither technology wise. Iran supports tons of proxies in middle east. Creating entire instability in the region, fueling number of wars. They killing their own people who are not happy with the government, and attacking everyone around taking entire world as a hostage. Also involved in all shady operations. Spreading arms, including drones, infamous Shaheds that killed so many people in Europe. China provide all equipment from military to cellphone so that body government can control and kill everyone who disagree with their policies. Compare that to USA policies, who removed major threads like Iraq who invaded countries around.
Moving forward :
Poster child russia. Russia would not survive it's war without China's support. And now it sending drones with China's made electronics to number of countries of Europe. The opposite ? USA supported Ukraine, and Russia lost it power in war-torn Siria and right now finally there is some shaky peace over there.
To me it's very obvious what china produces as a government.
USA is ugly reacting trying to save the world from another half crazy government that is trying to create nuclear weapons. The free world needs a new super power to protect themself probably, since we have an evil super power like china. Unfortunately, usa can't protect free world anymore.
The Hungary that JD Vance tried to influence elections in, in favour of an autocratic asshole that peddles antisemitism and FUD regarding Ukraine?
> Canada,
The Canada currently harassed by the sad joke of a POTUS with a trade war?
> half of the Africa ,
The half hit by Ebola with retracted USAID, or the other half? Like that one that includes South Africa, the only African country the USA grants asylum right now--to white farmers over racism concerns? Or the half including Sudan or the Kongo, ravaged by civil war, enabled with American weapons and strategic neglect?
> war in Ukraine ,
The war enabled by no-one but the USA's support for Russia? Remember the red carpets for Putin?
> North Korea ,
You mean the country that only exists because of the USA's Korean War? The country led by "a good friend" of the American president?
> Iran
The Iran currently under siege by the USA and Israel in an unsanctioned attack war?
> you name it .
Oh sure! We can gladly continue with Gaza, Vietnam, Cuba, Bhutan, South Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Denmark and Iceland, Mexico, Panama, Venezuela, ... there are so many more places fucked up by the USA and its agencies!
> They will fund any sick sycophantic government if they let them build their plants .
You mean like in Venezuela, Gaza, or whatever the clown in chief has planned for Iran?
JD Vance visiting Hungary was hilarious. You could gather 150 million Americans and not a single one would be able to pinpoint Hungary on a map. Whose interests was Vance serving? Russia’s?
Are you seriously brought up North Korea here? In both USSR and USA of that time there was no hunger for another conflict that could end up in the new war. North Korean's were pushed by China's Mao despite Kim Soviet Army roots. And they attacked first. The result is very obvious a terrorist state with nuclear power. China could easily keep them away from nuclear power but they didn't .
>Ukraine
Seriously? despite my hate to Trump, he was trying to stop corruptionist North stream to occur, since it was a clear war precursor, and he was the first president to sell Ukraine lethal weapons. Current administration is incompetent but even so they approved the sell of ATACAMS from Turkey to ukraine just few weeks ago. But the fact that Ukraine still exist is only due to Biden administration. Modern peace in Syria is also due to same fact actually.
>Iran
Are you going to cry that Hitler was attacked? Iran as a country brought sooo much troubles to the entire region directly and indirectly. List of proxies : Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Palestinian territories, Bahrain, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia.
>Oh sure!
some random list mostly. How south Korea was screw up? or ... Mexico, or Venezuela? even Afghanistan with all the respect. If we are talking of China they also tried to attack vietnam. What happened to Denmark, Iceland are they art war?
Ghaza : same Iran proxy said story multiplied by 1000 years conflict. How us is related here at all?
Cuba? The poster child of communism mismanagement, I wish people of Cuba finally to have liberation.
>Hungary
this is one is funny, despite been a clear china/russian proxy, JD decided to support, i guess out of hate to EU, not sure what was the real angle. But right now, there are real deep corruption investigation that goes to both Russia and China.
1. In the US on that item, it's ~50/50 or whatever.
2. In China, aren't even the biggest business leaders, the most famous celebrities, etc. simply "disappeared" if they won't support the party-line? Or even being "disappeared" for something like accusing a former vice-premier of sexual assault? For example, the BBC headline/article "Why do Chinese billionaires keep vanishing?"
I posted above why china is bad, it's yes people disappearing, and sponsoring anyone who tries do destabilize current world , and hence fueling the war, North Korea, Iran, Russia is on that list of their proxies.
1. I'm generally against any countries "disappearing" anyone, including western countries - and my parent comment explicitly said that it happened to more than just billionaires - famous artists and actors were also disappeared, and the person I mentioned being disappeared for accusing an official of sexual assault was a top female athlete.
2. But if a country is willing to regularly "disappear" the highest profile members of society, they probably are not going to be too concerned about "disappearing" significantly larger groups of ordinary people, poor people, etc. who are willing to verbally disagree with the government, agreed? Or who are an ethnic minority like the Uyghurs.
3. I don't understand your "china bad" comment though - if the US was disappearing billionaires (or celebs/artists/athletes or whomever) if they wouldn't agree with Trump, would you have similarly said "is that your metric for 'america bad', disappearing people for not agreeing with the government?"?
There are low stakes use cases where this kind of stuff just doesn’t matter. Not every use case for an LLM involves sensitive or even non public data.
Eg. I have a need to search transcripts of published recordings to extract entities for tagging purposes, find semantic shifts for chapters and other things. The underlying content is already published. If they want to train on my prompts, that was something they could have done with no issue and minimal effort anyway.
Sometimes you don’t need to care why the steak is free.
I've found capable models are incredibly useful for fixing up old ebooks. The kind that were text documents OCRd off a paperback and then dumped in word and bodged into an epub
The ones that have all sorts of ocr artifacts, weird capitalization, and virtually no css
Ran a bunch of older sci-fi through some earlier and it fixes them up very well
I'm kind of fascinated by how many of the same audiences who are highly skeptical of OpenAI and Anthropic are the same people running straight to other country's models.
The most oft-repeated rebuttal I've heard is that they don't care what other government know about them. I guess their threat model hasn't considered any privacy issues, data mining, or leakage risks, just the possibility of the federal government doing something to them?
This idea that the US labs are just directly committing fraud against effectively every major US organization is the most tinfoil hat thing I’ve heard in a long time. Training on excluded data would (eventually) be trivially provable. Forget loss of trust; this would make the labs a defendant to the most legally well-resourced organizations on the planet.
they knowingly and willfully broke copyright laws the world over in the faces of some of the most powerful corporations , but somehow some magical post-training method to discern provenance is going to be the legal gotcha that bothers the AI groups?
That's very defeatist. Do you have any concrete reason to think the major providers are lying to every one of their business/API customers about not training or storing the data? The business loss of trust would outweigh any benefits of the data.
(And if they freely lie about such things, I don't know why they would bother taking the PR hit when they announced fable had temporary data retention for their abuse prevention)
Because they know that in the end there will only be a few winners, and if you are one of them, you will settle even if its for billions, and if not it doesn't matter because you will be bankrupt anyway.
And besides various companies have been caught ripping torrents and other copyright data, what makes you so sure that same companies wont rip your data too.
Thats on top of 50 to a 100 years of companies straight up breaking the law to get ahead. Various ubers and food delivery app being the latest example.
I dont trust a lot of companies that i have to work with in some form or other anyway, with Oracle being on top of my personal shit list, followed by Salesforce and Broadcom.
And I dont think most of the AI companies are more ethical than any of the above.
AI labs are limited by the available training data, the best way to improve model performance is more and better training data.
The AI labs and the downstream companies that sell training data to them vacuum up everything they can.
Illegal residential proxies (botnets) that once have been used by hackers and scammers are now used to vacuum up the Internet.
They are now vacuuming up antique books that are practically useless.[1]
In face of this is is unthinkable to me that they are not training on API data.
> The business loss of trust would outweigh any benefits of the data.
The loss of trust is already here.
I know of one German company that uses AI only in areas where they have to compete with (foreign) startups. For their core business and everything else they are waiting for an on-prem solution. Apparently Microsoft can provide on-prem GPT-5.
> That's very defeatist. Do you have any concrete reason to think the major providers are lying to every one of their business/API customers about not training or storing the data? The business loss of trust would outweigh any benefits of the data.
At the same time if I was one of those large orgs and was running out of training data and falling behind the competitors, I'd probably have to stretch every definition under the sun, like what counts as "metadata". From a zero sum game perspective, it doesn't make that much sense for them NOT to train on your data if the consequences upon (non-guaranteed) discovery seem largely inconsequential when everyone just wants the best model regardless.
In this situation your comment is correct, but in many others the open weight models are hosted on different platforms like DigitalOcean etc that have different privacy policies.
When using (not this 'Stealth mode') open weight models you can choose a hosting provider you trust.
tdlr, chinese open models are more private and secure.
openai and anthropic plans steal your data. if you opt out they still log it, and send it to moderators to view if it gets flagged.
the other models are very often hosted by western providers with much stronger privacy and tighter contracts that the other subscriptions won't offer. they don't train, don't log and don't send to moderators.
> I highly recommend feeding all your proprietary data and confidential personal information into this model as quickly as possible. What could possibly go wrong?!
What is special about this model? The model's provider is not anonymous. OpenRouter knows who it is (and apparently decided that, in whatever way they always do it, it is okay to work with them). Using this seems roughly equivalent to using any model through OpenRouter, as far as I can tell.
All of my non-work AI coding is that open-source, so I'm happy to feed my data into the machine.
It's a win for me: my code goes into the training data, and my sessions are fed into future training data, making the model stronger at the type of work I do.
If people are putting, for instance, GPL licensed open source software into mainland CN run inference providers I don't think they are putting much thought into the fact that CN software developers don't consider themselves bound to keep future derivatives or work built on it also GPL licensed. Nor is there really any realistic chance for legal recourse in event of violation.
Yeah, I get that. Any IP going through China might be hot tho; if you end up using it in a product, and your competitor's lawyers have a look at it, you might end up with your company/product getting destroyed. I guess we should treat AI the same as China in that regard (if living in 'the West')
In the meantime, AI companies ignore licenses and scrape as they see fit. Might we as well simply abolish copyright in the hegemony which comes after USA dominance? I don't know, but I do know China won't enforce it on their end.
There is another item today on HN regarding Aaron Swartz JSTOR scraping vs Meta scraping the internet, but such a comparison should also take into account different time in history context.
Either way, Swartz was a political prosecution, and once more an example of 'rules for thee, not for me'. Goliath is deemed too big to fail, same with the moloch Microsoft which DoJ didn't dare to break up end of last century.
We’re about a year and a half past this conversation. The industry has settled on “Don’t use it for work, unless your company is okay with whatever models. Everything else is whatever, super-majority really does not care at this point.”.
Just a few years ago, people would lose their marbles if some software installed a background agent to send you notifications or something.
Now we agreed that it's totally normal to have software that does remote code execution on our machines, for which it first has to transfer all data to a remote server.
We've already normalized this. It doesn't really matter who gets access to said machine/data - they will all retain information, and they will all train on it, regardless of what user agreement sais. It's not like OpenAI and Anthropic didn't train on things they didn't have permission to train on.
At the same time, I will also be the first one to admit that I don't have like 20-50k EUR laying around for the hardware to run inference fast enough on good models. Hell, even an RTX 5060 Ti 16 GB is at least 700 EUR (820 USD) right now over here, so regular consumers are also screwed, same with RAM prices and storage prices. Absolutely insane time to buy hardware.
as already suggested, buy and host your own inference system. just own both side of such "RCE". make sure you audit and use open source software for the entire stack.
you are just complaining on something that can be totally safeguarded. yes, it won't be cheap, it require a lot of work, welcome to the capitalist world.
ironically this model is zero data retention on opencode, which is more private than the lowest retention offered by openai, google, or anthropic on their consumer plans.
In terms of equivalence of suspicion, this is the external inference provider equivalent of getting free steak that was smuggled out of a grocery store inside somebody's pants.