There is what some people say is a gray zone (I don't actually think it's that gray) where a device is too fast or powerful to be a legal e-bike, but also doesn't meet the requirements to be a road legal motorcycle. Will Progressive give me motorcycle insurance on my DIY e-bike without a VIN? Will the DVM register it? I don't think so. In most states there is no path to legality, at least as far as operating the thing on public streets goes.
I don't think that's necessarily a problem that needs solved. I'm fine telling the person that bought a Sur-Ron, "too bad, off road only".
> I don't think so. In most states there is no path to legality, at least as far as operating the thing on public streets goes.
Not true. It's common to convert dirt bikes into street legal vehicles with conversion kits that add the required pieces. Depending on the state, that means turn signals, a mirror, headlight, and tail light.
I think it's completely reasonable if we tell people that their Sur-Ron is for private property use only until they add the same equipment we require every other street legal vehicle to have. I also think it's reasonable if we tell them their electric motorcycle doesn't belong on the bike path.
>I think it's completely reasonable if we tell people that their Sur-Ron is for private property use
If only that were actually the law. My roads are 100% private with absolutely zero tax payer funding yet the dumbass registration laws and requirement to display a plate even apply on my private road (only exempt if the owner white-lists traffic, which cannot be done under my easement rules which at best would only might allow me to black-list abusers). In fact pretty much all the roads in my town are completely privately funded and privately owned yet you still need registration/plate along with the legal mumbo jumbo to obtain it.
Pretty soon you realize the laws have nothing to do with the fiction of the laws being there to protect the public roads or public land or taxpayer funding or some such, it's a sham pretense that falls apart upon inspection of how they work.
>If only that were actually the law. My roads are 100% private with absolutely zero tax payer funding yet the dumbass registration laws and requirement to display a plate even apply on my private road (only exempt if the owner white-lists traffic, which cannot be done under my easement rules which at best would only might allow me to black-list abusers). In fact pretty much all the roads in my town are completely privately funded and privately owned yet you still need registration/plate along with the legal mumbo jumbo to obtain it.
It sounds like your roads are accessible by the public though, which means unregulated public traffic, which means all of the tools necessary to ensure a basic level of safety and accountability need to be followed. This seems perfectly reasonable to me, does it not to you?
Like, you still have to follow building codes, pay property taxes, and not murder people on your private property and that doesn't seem outrageous.
>My county doesn't believe in all that dumb bullshit that the "public" has the right to decide about victimless regulatory crimes on your own property and if we could overturn the registration law we would, unfortunately the law is a state law that was made mostly by city slickers in the major cities in my state who have no clue places like our rural private road systems exist.
I see. I assume then that you do not expect the fire department to show up and put out a blaze on your property then? Or you do still want that, but are confused about why we have codes?
>Peacefully riding your unregistered dirt-bike down my private road is compared to a victim-involved crime, how?
As an example of being bound to the law despite being on private property. How about we change it to securities fraud, is that better?
>I can play the safety fuck-fuck game too. The best thing for my safety is that a glorified tax collector who "fears for his life" with a badge and a gun can't stomp his boot on my neighbor cuz he doesn't display the King's numbers on his overpowered illegal e-bike which is far safer for everyone around me than a registered mega-RV where they can't see shit around them.
I don't know what you're talking about but it's not the conversation we were having.
>In summary, absolutely not. It is not at all consistent with what the "public" is claiming what these laws are for. The public voters are told the laws are going in to protect their publicly owned roads and tax maintained systems. The democratic assent here is a fraud -- they've been baited and switched under the auspices of making laws for publicly owned roads but the politicians took advantage of the fact the urban public had no idea it applied to our road system and those of us who did know aren't a large enough voter pool to stop it when a naive majority is weaponized by politicians in bad faith.
I don't understand your worldview. Are you saying there should be no registration and traffic safety laws at all?
>And this gets us back to the fact, that you, lobf, are part of this bait and switch. You didn't have dick to say when Aurornis was advocating they be relegated to private roads. But as soon as I pointed out the law, then suddenly, the goal posts shifted again, and even being on private property isn't good enough. It was never about putting with unregistered vehicles to private property, was it lobf?
Dude, all due respect but you seem unhinged here. Take a breather, this is wildly, needlessly aggressive.
Which is too bad... They are great practical and reliable vehicles. You can't even ride them off-road either (CA), since the majority of _accessible_ off-road trails require a highway-legal vehicle, or are otherwise limited to hiking and biking.
So, the only real alternative is a dual sport, which is louder, heavier, faster, and has more emissions. The latest (only?) loophole is to find a plated, clapped out Honda or Yamaha dirt bike and do an electric conversion.
People who say this is a "gray zone" are practicing motivated reasoning. It is not gray, they are just illegal. There doesn't have to be a "path to legality" for illegal motorcycles. The only "path" necessary is the one straight to jail for the guy who imports these from China and sells them to the public.
There is what some people say is a gray zone (I don't actually think it's that gray) where a device is too fast or powerful to be a legal e-bike, but also doesn't meet the requirements to be a road legal motorcycle. Will Progressive give me motorcycle insurance on my DIY e-bike without a VIN? Will the DVM register it? I don't think so. In most states there is no path to legality, at least as far as operating the thing on public streets goes.
I don't think that's necessarily a problem that needs solved. I'm fine telling the person that bought a Sur-Ron, "too bad, off road only".