On: Australia begins enforcing world-first teen social media ban

[armenarmen]

As one of the libertarian people here, my concern is that this “what about the children” will force IDs to post. Because how else could it be done?

That said smoking and Instagram are probably best avoided by kids

[owisd → armenarmen]

It’s already a solved problem- load a digital ID into a wallet app, the operating system can then perform a zero knowledge proof for each website that the user is over 16. The government issuing the ID doesn’t know which websites it’s being used for and the website only gets a binary yes/no for the age and no other personal info:

https://blog.google/products/google-pay/google-wallet-age-id...

[heavyset_go → owisd]

How does this solve the problem of both governments and corporations wanting to implement this in ways that allow them to hoard datasets?

As it stands, the government in the US uses an identity verification vendor that forces you to upload videos of multiple angles of your face, enough data for facial recognition and to build 3D models, along with pictures of your ID.

I use Tor, so I get to see how age verification is implemented all over the world. By large, the process almost always includes using your government issued ID and live pictures/videos of your face.

There are zero incentives to implement zero knowledge proofs like this, and billions of dollars of incentives to use age verification as an opportunity to collect population-wide datasets of people's faces in high resolution and 3D. That data is valuable, especially for governments and companies that want to implement accurate facial recognition and who have AI models to train.

[akoboldfrying → heavyset_go]

Nothing "solves" the problem of governments wanting to collect data on you. Governments will likely always want this, until we start caring about the issue enough to elect ones that don't.

The important point is that such invasive approaches are not required; clearly, however people already authenticate with government agencies for getting a driver's licence or passport would suffice. I think it's the responsibility of knowledgeable tech people to advocate for this.

[mat_b → heavyset_go]

I suspect that this is going to happen one way or another anyways. You already have to scan your face at the airport here.

[raw_anon_1111 → owisd]

Well, phones and computers have had parental controls for well over a decade.

[wizzwizz4 → owisd]

That doesn't solve the problem: it just defers it. Who's allowed to have a digital ID?

[nottorp → wizzwizz4]

Microsoft users :)

Or do you expect the government to understand there are other operating systems out there?

[bawolff → wizzwizz4]

Most people in western countries already have id. I think the ship has ling sailed on that.

[wizzwizz4 → bawolff]

Most being the operative word. In human-centric bureaucracies, people who don't have ID (for whatever reason: religious conviction, a feud with the relevant government agency, a legal status the computer system was never designed to represent) can still access services in many cases. Naïvely computerising everything will effectively remove rights from those whose paperwork doesn't check out.

ID verification is a universal hammer, to which all problems look like nails, but we shouldn't be so quick to reach for it. Not all of its downsides can be solved with cryptography.

[akoboldfrying → wizzwizz4]

Everyone the government decides can have one, the same way every other government ID works.

IOW, this problem is as "unsolved" as the problem of deciding who's allowed to drive a car, or travel to another country.