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Why?




Different ideas on economics (socialism vs capitalism) and personal freedoms, lack of a shared cultural background anymore, etc.

What countries in Europe are not capitalist? Genuine question. And who has less personal freedoms in your opinion?

I'm genuinely curious, could you elaborate?

Which European countries would you consider to be socialist? Or perhaps a better question is what makes a country socialist?

Which personal freedoms are different in the US vs Europe?

I've lived in both US and Europe, and have an opinion on this, but really would like your take.


This is just American nonsense. Literally every single country in Europe is capitalist. Socialism is the democratic ownership of the means of production. Nowhere do we have that in Europe. Frankly this is the real problem with America, about half the population are extremely poorly educated and yet extremely arrogant. A deadly combination, clearly, as it’s led to the very sudden decline and fall of the American Empire.

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It is better to clarify what they misunderstood about you and what you misunderstood about them.

You stated something objectively wrong (that European countries are socialist) and then get called out and your reply is just to get upset, literally no information content whatsoever. It's very on brand, I suppose, reminds me a lot of that fraudster, convicted rapist and known paedophile currently in the White House.

Regardless, I agree we are going in separate directions, indeed the USA is no longer even a Western country. We had some good times, the American Empire was pretty great whilst it lasted, I wish you all the best.


My entire point is that many Europeans love to call Americans stupid and uneducated about politics while acting the exact same way themselves, all without noticing the blatant hypocrisy. The difference between you and me and that I know and accept that I am an uneducated idiot about most things. I wish you all the best as well. Hopefully everything works out for the best for everyone involved.

There's nothing wrong with being stupid at all. I just don't understand why you have such strong opinions on something you clearly know nothing about. So: you don't like Europe, USA's oldest and most important allies because they're socialists. OK but Europe is not even socialist, literally all European countries are capitalist (objectively, it's an undeniable fact). Now what? Any reflection, reevaluation? No, you just get offended and tell me once again that you don't like me because I'm European and that's it.

The enlightenment is dead in the USA, knowledge and facts no longer matter. Feelings over facts really won.


First, you failed to read past the first entry in my list of reasons, second you still do not seem to understand what I am saying. You tell me about how half the population of the country that I live in is poorly educated, stupid, and arrogant while you probably do not even live there and then tell me I remind you of a rapist because of that. You do not seem to notice that, if what you are saying is true, you come off as all of those things as well (not the rapist part though lol) because you are doing the exact same thing that I am, talking about something you have little to no direct experience in.

But I'm not saying half the population of your country are morons because I'm bigoted or hate Americans, indeed I have spent almost my entire life respecting and admiring your country and its people. I'm saying half your population are morons because half your population voted for Trump. That's perfectly logical.

And yes I can talk about these things because your country remains the global hegemon, the USA is unavoidable. It's not as if I'm expressing some hot takes on South Sudanese politics, is it? So if we are to be ruled by you please don't be surprised if we have some opinions of you too. That's a fair deal, isn't it?


You are perfectly welcome to have whatever opinion you want, but when your intelligent and clearly more educated than mine opinion of everyone in the United States, a country that you do not live in, comes down to the most basic binary political nonsense that an 8 year old is capable of spouting I am also welcome to have my opinion of you based on an actual interaction. And either way, I am just as welcome to have my uneducated opinions on someone else's politics as you are.

I mean sometimes it's really that binary. It's not always complex. Sorry if your feelings are hurt by that fact.

Europe is also capitalist. The last time I checked we had stock exchanges, corporations, and private property laws.

Those don't seem like the best reasons. European and American economics are pretty close. Europe isn't socialist, it has broader welfare system than the US, but the US has significant welfare systems as well.

I've lived in the US and in Europe and the UK. Shared culture is still very significant. If anything, maybe even closer now than in the 90s.

There's probably other reasons to think about the why and how of alliances than these.


You are correct in terms of economics and culture, but the UK has turned extremely authoritarian and jails people for social media posts frequently.

I'm okay with a country jailing people for the crime of tweeting "we should murder all trans people". That probably should be a crime. Punishment should fit the crime though, so no more than a few weeks.

What about when they jail people for tweeting about how they don't want more immigrants?

Literally never happened. You just are way too online if you believe that. Try visiting the UK sometime, you clearly never been and it’s a great country.

The UK is nowhere near as authoritarian as the USA currently is so I don't understand your criticism. If anything it could bring us together!

The US is allied with actual authoritarian regimes.

I'm not a big fan of the UK, I grew up there and left. But this whole UK is authoritarian thing is totally overblown in the US media and HN comments. Having free speech restrictions implemented by an elected government isn't authoritarian. You could even say that having totally free speech imposed by a non-elected government is authoritarian if people don't want it. These things are separate. I listen to UK media quite often (topical comedies mostly) and my feeling is that these laws are generally supported. There's a lot of negativity about social media from bullying up to incitement of violence.


The US is allied with actual authoritarian regimes.

So is the EU, btw: Hungary, Turkey, and Israel.


yes? I wasn't doing a moral comparison, I was just pointing out that it's not really in the equation of reasons the US makes alliances.

Israel is not authoritarian in present time

  > socialism vs capitalism
I guess this might be a matter of conditioning. You might live in an environment where concepts around the stem "social" has become a pejorative. In that way it is understandable that a term like "social democrat" is interpreted as "communist". There does not exist anything you imagine like that.

What is different is that there is more opposition and cultural resistance to hyper capitalism. Think monopolies, corporatism, live-to-work, hustle-culture.

With regards to any messaging about "freedom" in the USA, be vigilant, I do think people will be unpleasantly surprised about what has been transacted away. Personal freedoms are indeed extremely important, so zero Schadenfreude here. And yes, those lobby groups in the EU fail to get their stupid anti-encryption laws passed, but they keep trying, so it is frightening. Citizens and visitors of the Five Eyes have lost any privacy already, but we need all of us to fight back.

TLDR: it is better to cooperate around common causes than to fight imaginary opponents. We are in the same boat.


I genuinely can't tell whether you are serious or trolling. Please tell me more about how Europe is socialist.

Or what does that even mean to you. Is socialism when state exists? You are not first American to say that, and every time it happens, I'm genuinely surprised. (I mean, rhetorical question. I suppose that's what socialism is to you. And you are a part of a problem too, because you are growing up internally people who genuinely believe that socialism is good because it means healthcare and higher education. Words no longer have meaning to you in America.)


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> most European countries seem to be on a path towards socialism

No, unfortunately the path in most European countries seems to be heading towards fascism, not socialism. We Europeans do tend to follow America in many things.


It's called social democracy, and much to the chagrin of real socialists this political tradition fully embraces capitalism.

> Different ideas on economics (socialism vs capitalism) and personal freedoms, lack of a shared cultural background anymore, etc.

In other words, you mean there isn't any country that you think could be an ally to the US?

Can you name any?




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