Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin
HN: you are guilty of premature optimization
6 points by yters on Jan 28, 2009 | hide | past | favorite | 18 comments
Most of us here want to become financially free. This is what draws us to talk about startups, finances, and the like. You would think, being hackers, we would focus on the most efficient ways to become financially free. But, we do not. Instead we focus on one, very difficult, exhausting, and undependable method - selling an online startup. Why is this?

Some might say it is because you want to be your own boss. Fine, but don't you want to be your own boss because then you are free? Isn't the original problem, then, that you are enslaved by the pursuit of money?

Others might say they like the glamor. For that it seems obvious that you need large amounts of publicity and money. But why make this assumption? What is more glamorous, someone who is dependent on a massive infrastructure, or someone who struck out and made their own destiny? Plus, the new, social media is much better publicity than that of the old, institutional media. With all the time on your hands when you are financially free, you have plenty of time to make a name for yourself.

Finally, some may just want loads of money to spend on whatever cool gadgets and experiences they may want. This is more difficult to achieve with financial freedom alone. But, it is not impossible. Again, financial freedom gives you all the time you could need, plenty of time to figure out clever ways to get what you want.

As capitalism proves, human ingenuity is the real wealth, and that is only limited by time.




If it was just on most efficient, this would be a very different forum. I think the primary thread of discussion is to talk about what we love and what drives us, treating financial gain as a side-effect.


I see zero posts about becoming financially free. I see many posts about startups, the stock market, and getting burnt out by programming jobs that control what people think and do. Try posting something about being depressed here, and see how many upvotes it gets. Or, look at my submission history.

This does not look like the posting pattern of people who are satisfied with their freedom.

Here's a recent example:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=454316

Do people here sound satisfied with their work, and merely talking about their diverse interests? Or does the allure of the startup draw them?


I don't think I have a firm grasp on what you're asking.

Why is there more complaining than praise? That's just human nature. Also, paying attention to the bad is more productive than to the good. People are always looking to improve.

Why the seeming disconnect between doing things you love and start ups? A start up, with its associated (hopeful) monetary stream not only lets you work on what you love, it also frees up time from doing what you have to in order to stay financially afloat. So, just having interesting hobbies is very sub-optimal.


It is your last point I am getting at. You seem to agree that the reason people are interested in startups is for freedom. Specifically financial freedom, meaning freedom to devote work to things other than the financial bottom line for living.

So, what I am saying is that since we want freedom, we need to think about the best ways for becoming free. Everyone assumes best = startups, but no one has really discussed the issue to see if this is right. Startups are notoriously undependable vessels of financial freedom, so that doesn't make sense to me. Why accept the status quo?

I'll put together a plan in a month or so and post it, hopefully generate more discussion.


Most of us here want to become financially free. This is what draws us to talk about start ups, finances, and the like.

You're oversimplifying. Most of us here want to build cool stuff. Becoming financially free is certainly something which makes building cool stuff a lot easier, so to that extent it's worthwhile; but startups would be attractive due to the drive to build cool stuff even if there was no chance of them ever being profitable.


What does a startup have to do with building cool stuff? The startup aspect seem mainly a diversion to me: networking, raising support, handling customers, etc. I see many posts talking about how well a particular startup is doing, but does anyone talk about how fun it is to do startupish stuff?


I have yet to see anyone here say that they enjoy raising money from VCs. As for customers, the best I've heard people say about them is that occasionally customers make interesting suggestions.

Running a startup might not mean that all of your time is spent building cool stuff, but it's probably better than working at <insert big company here>.


And that's my point regarding financial freedom. People want to form a startup for freedom to work on cool stuff more often. But, why go that circuitous route instead of pursuing financial freedom directly? The startup route only makes sense if it is the most effective way of achieving financial freedom. But, no one here is discussing the most effective way. People just assume startups and go from there.


What's a more efficient way to financial freedom than creating and selling a startup? Probably the only other realistic alternative was becoming an investment banker, but I don't think anyone is going to argue for that one right now.


Yeah, startups are known to not be a very dependable route to financial freedom. On the other hand, it doesn't cost too much to live overseas or in certain places in the US. Most here are programmers or other creative types, and it does not cost much to pursue such interests either. It comes down to standard of living and relationships.


When I keep thinking which other, more efficient ways of achieving financial freedom you might have had in mind, I cannot help the word fraud popping up. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but I have no idea what you did mean. :) Investment banking? Consulting?


No, illegal is bad. I could not be happy if I were freeing myself at the expense of others.

One route I have in mind is living overseas. According to my calculations, it should be possible to save up enough money over, say, about 5 years, to live entirely off the interest in a less developed country. However, less developed does not mean bad. The majority of my childhood was spent in a third world country. I greatly enjoyed it, and it was much less developed than what I have in mind. Also, I think there are places in the US that are just as affordable, but I haven't researched the issue much yet.

Here is a bit of research I've done. I need to take into account more variables, and be a bit more rigorous, but it seems a plausible method.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=122341


This would be more persuasive if "Money" were in the lead in your poll.


Freedom is in the lead, which is my point. The biggest enslavement we tend to have is financial.


I took the "money" option to mean, well, money, amd "Freedom" to mean picking one's own tools, projects, hours, coworkers.

I guess if you want to redefine any others, too, your case would be even stronger.


That's fair. I would still consider start ups as a form of financial freedom where instead of having no financial concerns to interfere with my real interests I use my real interests to offset my financial concerns. But, clearly the concepts are not as distinct as I've been making out.


Also, I know I worded the title a bit strongly, but I wanted to attract attention. If you have a better suggestion, I can change it.


Startups may be undependable, but I'm dismissive that there's a dependable way to become financially free unless you go down the self-sufficiency route.

After all, if it was dependable (no-risk) who wouldn't be doing it already?




Consider applying for YC's Fall 2025 batch! Applications are open till Aug 4

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: