> People can make judgment calls. Those are opinions.
I'm not sure that's a helpful distinction. In some sense, everything we classify as a 'fact' is a judgement call: is the sun a giant ball of fusing hydrogen? I mean, probably, but maybe we're all living in some sort simulation and it doesn't really exist at all; Or maybe you are living in your own personal "Truman Show", being fed lies by everyone who shows you scientific "evidence" about the sun's nature.
But "the sun is a giant ball of fusing hydrogen" is a different type of statement than "chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla", or "Mozart is better than Beethoven".
"The sun is a giant ball of fusing hydrogen" has the possibility of being proven false. This means it's either a true or false fact.
If I said "NYC is the capital of the United States"* I'm either lying or mistaken
What makes it a lie vs mistaken? Whether it's a genuine belief, that I have a reason to have the belief. For example if I made the assumption it's the capital because it's the biggest city then I'm mistaken.
It's a lie if I know it's not true, if I ignore information that falsifies the fact.
*To avoid semantics I mean the official capital of the country not like "it's important"
Right; and there are things which fall into the "true or false" category that are difficult to get clear answers for; economic policy is something that there are just too many confounding factors to prove to the same degree you can prove the laws of physics, for example.
And even for claims which are in the realm of "fact", which are false, but which are truly believed, we need to be careful about suppressing truth. There was a time when "the sun goes around the earth" was accepted "scientific fact". Lots of flat-earthers genuinely believe the falsehoods they're spreading. Where do we draw the line between "healthy skepticism" and "dangerous falsehood"?
I don't have a clear answer, but I do think there needs to be a line.
>Where do we draw the line between "healthy skepticism" and "dangerous falsehood"
The line is whether the person is genuine in belief and the potential harm. There's no direct harm if someone believes the sun revolves around the earth.
> There's no direct harm if someone believes the sun revolves around the earth.
No direct harm; but it may be comorbid with other things that cause harm, like vaccine skepticism.
There is a question about what the best response is. Just censoring disinformation like this may cause people who notice / experience the censorship to give more credence to the disinformation. But as is apparent from the whole "flat earth" fiasco, there are a large number of people who seem simply incapable of understanding basic math or scientific principles. The earth can be proven round by personal observations made by anyone. If people still cannot be convinced the earth is round, how are they to be convinced about things that they cannot collect personal observations, like vaccines, or the holocaust, or January 6th?
At any rate, I'm glad I'm not running a platform like YouTube; it's not an easy problem.
I think the most useful distinction is between “opinions” and “beliefs” rather than opinions and facts. A belief represents your confidence in the truth or falsehood of a statement. While an opinion has no underlying objective reality. “Apples are better than peaches” is an opinion. “More people ate apples than bananas in 2024” is a belief; it may be a true belief or a false belief but there is an answer.
@gwd: absolutely true; all the "facts" I know are either a long series of supporting ideas ("this is a chair and I can sit on it") or something I was told by an authority I trust ("Africa exists").
I still say there is a difference between "Africa exists" and "gwd's statement about the lack of 'facts' is heretical and they should be imprisoned".
I guarantee you that, if only they could, there are governments that would jail people for opinions. The US would have likely have done something to homosexuals, with or without sexual activity. Ditto on supporting Communism 'in your heart'. NK and other countries would do the same (OK, not NK for supporters of communism...).
> I’d say if you can be jailed for a particular opinion
Can you give an example of someone in a modern democracy jailed for their "opinion"?
To wit, are the examples you're thinking of "statement of opinion", "statement of fact", "pejorative insult", or "incitement"?
Saying "I think <public figure> is an idiot" is an opinion. "The earth is flat" or "The holocaust never happened" are not opinions; neither is, "Kick out all the <insert pejorative here>."
And yeah, in North Korea you'll absolutely be jailed for expressing some opinions. That may make them illegal, but it doesn't make them no longer opinions.
How is "the earth is flat" not an opinion?
People form opinions based on the information they have (or are willing to accept). For their worldview, their opinion is valid. If they don't accept certain voices of reason, they have that right. We saw people not allowed to ask about the origins of the covid19 virus because it went against a public narrative. At the beginning of the pandemic, people who expressed that masks should be worn were rejected by even government officials.
People might not have gone to jail, but they did have voices and access to society limited or removed because of their opinions.
Not really an opinion but it can be a belief. I'm not sure why we are okay with people believing that Earth is ~6000 years old, but not with someone believing that we are in a simulation and everything before e.g. year 1999 is just a collective memory fabrication.
But would you dare state out loud in Germany that, in your opinion, the official number of Holocaust victims is actually much less than what's been widely reported? Even if you had what you believed was solid evidence supporting your argument? I bet you wouldn't.
> neither is, "Kick out all the <insert pejorative here>."
How about voicing your opinion that <people from some country> should be barred from emigrating to <European country> because <crime statistics>? Bet you wouldn't try that either, because your opinion is in "hate speech" territory now.
Solid evidence that generations of historians have somehow overlooked? Great, let’s hear it! I can assure you that Germany would welcome anything that lifts some guilt from our collective shoulders here, so if you as opposed to a lot of smart people know the truth, we will invite you on a beer for sure.
Opinions cannot be right or wrong.
> It makes no exceptions whatsoever, and that is what we need to strive for.
It certainly does. See libel / defamation / perjury / false representation / fraud / false advertising / trademark infringement.