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Many fast food places now have tablet based ordering, so turns out AI wasn’t needed for software to take away jobs.

That said, AI could do that job perfectly well. The reason we still have human to human interaction when you order is that it creates a more interesting environment for employees, who crave at least some kind of human contact. And customers will pay marginally more for the food if they get some human contact as well.



> Many fast food places now have tablet based ordering

As an experience though, they could hardly have implemented it in a worse way. A big part of the reason I don't go to McDonald's any more is that the experience of using the ordering kiosks is so awful compared to just telling a human what I want.


> A big part of the reason I don't go to McDonald's any more is that the experience of using the ordering kiosks is so awful compared to just telling a human what I want.

Huh, for me is the polar opposite. Maybe it's because I mumble, is unclear or don't speak the native language as well as the natives where I live, but I always preferred the kiosks. I seem to always get what I order then, and it's a lot easier to customize things. Generally just feels faster, which I guess is the most important thing about fast-food, I want to be in-and-out of there as quick as possible, the less humans I have to deal with, the better.


When I worked at McDonalds, a major thing I learned is that when 95% of people say they got an order wrong, the customer ordered it wrong without realizing it. Customer says "I want a cheeseburger, plain", Mcdonalds puts that in as "Cheesebuger, no ketchup, mustard, onion or pickle". Customers will take plain to mean a dozen different things.


I also worked at McDonalds. You example is interesting because this specific issue came up often. Different people interpreted it to mean different things. The cashiers who'd been around the longest had learned to clarify exactly what the customer wants.

Also, this is absolutely NOT a customer issue. It's a restaurant issue to clarify. Plain means different things at different restaurants, so the solution is to _always_ clarify exactly what the customer means.


Every fast food place I've been to, a "plain cheeseburger" includes cheese. However, at every high-end burger place I've been to, "plain" does NOT include cheese. So there is a somewhat standard meaning.

I have this conversation enough that I now call out "plain no cheese" and ensure "no cheese" is written on the ticket.


That's a strange source of confusion. A plain cheeseburger without cheese has a different name: a plain hamburger. I can't imagine saying "cheeseburger", no matter what qualifying words around it, and being surprised it included cheese.


I have a very funny childhood memory of being in a McDonalds with my Cub Scout chapter; one of the boys ordered a "cheeseburger with no cheese", which - of course - was delivered with cheese, and the boy's father escalated the 'situation' to management.


Even more confusing when McDonalds calls them "burgers with cheese". Cheese seems to be a uniquely distinct event.

Also "I'll take a number 3 meal plain" is void of an actual subject for the type of burger.


> Even more confusing when McDonalds calls them "burgers with cheese".

That's a fun regional difference with McDonalds it seems, we definitely have (literally) "Cheeseburger" as a independent item on the menu compared to "Hamburger" here in Spain: https://i.imgur.com/XDNuiUW.png

That's quite funny actually, Spain tends to translate everything and have everything in English, dubbed, but apparently the McDonalds Cheeseburger got to remain, and wasn't renamed to "Hamburguesa con Queso" as one would have expected :)


McDonald's main menu items aren't actually called "cheeseburgers"; they're called "burgers with cheese". To me, this reads that "cheese" is a "topping" on the burger.

Further, they _only_ showcase the "burger with cheese variant" in their combos and special. This further drives home that you should be thinking about cheese in the same way as toppings.


I don't know exactly, anymore, because I haven't been to a McD for so long.

But one thing I know for sure, in Germany they are called Cheeseburger, not only called, but written as such on the menu.


You're conflating two different things. A plain cheeseburger obviously will include cheese by definition. A "plain" at a "burger place" would mean a plain hamburger. Both are correct usages of the adjective "plain" because the nouns they're describing are inherently different.


The challenge is that there's an indeterminable point at which the "cheese" stops being an integral part of the burger.

For a "cheeseburger" cheese is obviously integral. For a Big Mac, it's less clear but a "plain" Big Mac usually includes cheese.

For a fancy place's "deluxe Wagyu beef burger" that has cheese/truffles/a bunch of other stuff, a "plain" version will likely not have cheese.


Wouldn't a "plain cheeseburger" in those high-end burger places where it means no cheese just be a hamburger?


> Customer says "I want a cheeseburger, plain", Mcdonalds puts that in as "Cheesebuger, no ketchup, mustard, onion or pickle". Customers will take plain to mean a dozen different things.

Isn't it up to the person who is receiving the order to ask clarifying questions then? Since they know it's potentially unclear/ambiguous, why not try to resolve the ambiguity before making the order?


99% of orders are not made incorrectly, and you're being told to go faster and keep times low. Is this the 1 order of the hour that the person will come back and complain that its wrong? Is this person going to come back regardless and say it was wrong to get free food? Its unambiguous enough to not be worth the time.


Be a bit smooth about it: as you type in the order, verbally say out loud what you're entering with other words, then ask them to confirm. No lost time, potentially less people to deal with in the future, win-win.


It's been several lifetimes since I worked in a fast food place (not McDonald's), but at least then, this was how we were trained to do it. Reading the order back like that was required.


That'd just annoy the 99% of people that agree with McDonald's on what plain means. People at McDonald's are often in a hurry, and some would get really annoyed at stupid questions. Better to piss off the 1% than the 99%.

If you're clarifying at this level, there are likely many other questions that you'd ask.


Rule #1 at McDonald's: Never customize. If you don't want pickles, take them off yourself. Otherwise they'll just get it wrong.

Whenever I took my kids there I told them "if you don't want it the way they make it then don't order it."


I've customized our McD's orders for my entire life - they mess it up maybe 1/20 times, about the same ratio I'll have to park and wait. Otherwise it's always worked for me!


I almost always (except if there is a big queue) customize something, because then it's guaranteed made at the spot, instead of the heated old stuff. And since I started using the kiosks, the orders are always right, and fresh.


A custom order used to be a hack to be sure you got a freshly-made sandwich and not one that had been sitting in a warmer for 15 minutes, but they make everything to order now. And they still fuck them up, often.


> but they make everything to order now.

Hard to know for a fact without knowing where I live, I'm guessing :) FWIW, it's not true at McDonalds in Spain, they definitely have popular stuff sitting behind the counter for longer than the items you customize here.


And many people are now getting delivery which means another 15 minutes in the delivery vehicle picnic bag.


Even better when the customer just plain orders the wrong thing. I have a vivid memory of my pregnant wife and I at breakfast one morning, and she ordered apple juice. When the waiter brought apple juice she said she’d ordered orange, and when the waitress looked confused, I had to remind my wife she’d ordered apple. Total brain fart on her part (pregnancy brain seems to be a very real thing). Waitress didn’t care, especially after we laughed it off, and brought orange. But I know I’ve undoubtedly done the same thing, so I’m patient with mixups.


I doubt it. I’m a perfectly capable communicator and I also prefer them.


Removing the seasoning from a McDonald’s burger is only possible with human contact afaik. So no, not any customization is possible.


You can order a hamburger with "no salt" now via the app (and probably the kiosk?). But I'm not sure if there are other seasonings you're referring to, though.


It started out pretty okay but every time I order on one of those tablets they seem to have added an extra step of trying to sell me something more.


That's really the worst part. The upsells are insulting and get in the way of ordering what I want. Classic enshittification, starting with something which people like and slowly deteriorating it in order to make an extra buck. I'm sure the MBAs love it though.


“Do you want fries with that?” predates the MBA craze


True, but it's so much worse now. Several "special offers" you have to go through, with dark patterns to prevent skipping it.


> the experience of using the ordering kiosks is so awful compared to just telling a human what I want.

Those kiosks are horrific and greatly reduced the number of visits I made to McDonald's. The insane pricing since then further reduced those visits to zero.


they are quite impressively bad

in 2025 how is it so hard to make a user interface that doesn't lag like a bastard on every scroll/click/...

it's almost as bad as their terrible, terrible, terrible app


> in 2025 how is it so hard to make a user interface that doesn't lag like a bastard on every scroll/click/...

Because everything is done in fucking React or Node or Blazor or whatever the newest flavor of this wRiTe oNcE rUn aNyWheRe bollocks is, because it always, always, always the exact same fucking thing: abstracting UI elements to fucking goddamn JavaScript and running it in a browser.

And heaven knows McDonald's can't possibly pay for proper software development, they only made like 14 billion last year. They're barely scraping by.


That's not the issue. All these technologies can be nice and snappy. The problem is that developers suck at making software nice and snappy.

I've taken over several react apps over the years and one thing I always end up doing is remove a bunch of spinners because you don't need a spinner when the page loads instantly - as it should. Its very common for pages to take 10-60+ seconds to load, and when I look into it it's always obvious why they're so slow and easy to fix. The devs who made it just sucked.


> I always end up doing is remove a bunch of spinners because you don't need a spinner when the page loads instantly

I always have to remind people to add spinners, just because it loads instantly on your developer machine with a fiber connection (if not talking to a local container even) doesn't mean it will in the real world. But spinners only show when actively fetching so if it's fast they only show for a split-second. It's the best of both worlds.


Yeah, I don't like the split second spinners. And I work on company internal apps so every user is generally on a good connection.

What I might do is just add a global spinner using tanstack query, what I don't like is having 50 different spinners for every little component. Makes the site feel janky and weird.

I just don't see the point unless it's loading for 5+ seconds. If it's faster than that then the user won't have time to wonder if it's stuck anyway. And I prefer to have one or very few requests, rather than 10+ different ones for a single page.


> All these technologies can be nice and snappy

Maybe in theory, but in practice I see it very rarely. Maybe it starts out great and fast and then devolves into a shitfest.

Given how frequent this is, maybe it’s time to actually blame the technology itself if it makes it so easy to mess up?


No, devs being bad is not a solvable problem. You just have to find devs who know what they're doing, or at least have a few who can teach the less talented ones and check their work.

There is no programming language that you can't write slow code in.


What technology would you use instead then?


They have to upload video of your face to use for sentiment analysis at every click. /s ?


I have exactly opposite experience. If tablets are out of order for some reason, I just go somewhere else rather than attempting to talk to a human.

And the best way is just sit at the table, order with your phone and somebody brings the tray to you.


I actually prefer the kiosk. No ambiguity.


Also the kiosks are frequently broken.


In my humble opinion, this kind of thing is the largest blind spot in the current tech economy.

Massive LLMs had a breakout moment with chat, and now everyone has invested HARD into that technology while in fact there is really no good reason to think that massive models (billions of parameters, requiring billions of dollars to train, and requiring power-gulping servers to run) are needed or even preferred for most AI tasks.

We had algorithmic automation for all kinds of things in the 80s, and that has been steadily improving for everything from chess engines to computer vision to content suggestion ever since. Photo touch-up runs on handheld devices and is nearly instantaneous. Self-checkout is ubiquitous. Digital CNC and 3D printing is no longer to relegated to professionals, the point that amateurs can buy off-the-shelf solutions and start creating products with a few mouse clicks.

Billions is being spent on shovels in the current gold rush but are they really needed?


I would love to meet the idiot that believes this. I have some money to make $$$




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