What gets me is that people keep voting in favor of this stuff?
It's clear that the HN crowd is a bit of an echo chamber. Somehow, these messages of warning are not getting to people who need to hear them in order to stop voting against their own interests.
Well, now I think about it, people vote against their own interests on all kinds of issues. So I suppose this one doesn't have to be any different?
I'll be honest. Many of us in the US are tired of fighting with people that vote against their own interests time and again. It's like having a family member that keeps letting a burglar in the back door, over and over again. At some point you start thinking it might be easier to just find somewhere else to live...
> Many of us in the US are tired of fighting with people that vote against their own interests time and again.
Most people aren't voting against their interests, they're voting for the least-bad option based on whichever issues are most important to them. Often that means they have to vote against what they want on one issue, to vote for something they want on a different issue they care more about. There is no way to vote for every issue someone might want, so there will always be to make this complaint no matter what the outcome is.
Wedge issues, deployed by both political parties, do exactly this.
Wealthy donors express their political desires by funding politicians who become dependent on their continued financial support.
The voter gets just enough small wins on these wedge issues to keep them somewhat happy. The wealthy preserves the status quo since that’s how they became wealthy in the first place. Our democracy ossifies in the face of new challenges.
If voters across the spectrum viewed campaign finance reform as a key issue, we might have some hope in changing things.
No, I'm not going to be nearly as generous on this anymore. All my life I've been surrounded by conservatives. Most of my family is conservative to this day. And from extensive discussion and observation, they vote for two reasons:
1. To hurt "others". In particular, LGBT (focus on the T) and minorities. When there are minorities in our family!
2. As an extension of (1) - To cut all forms of social nets and gut education. Social nets they actively rely on! And the education systems their own family participate in!
It's not about a better America tomorrow, it's not about taking care of their children's future (who, I should add, are now unemployed because of government layoffs). The "identity" of their "identity politics" is an utter contempt for other human beings being allowed to exist.
There's no discussion of economics. There's no discussion of history. There's never numbers brought out or thoughts on short-term vs long-term policy. It's never how we can improve the lives of Americans or tackle the debt or recover foreign relations or police effectively.
Politics is exclusively about hate. Border "invasion", trans "pedos", Haitian "dog eaters", middle eastern "terrorists", Chinese "communists", gay "weirdos", union "thieves", "emotional" women, "socialist" educators.
Actual policy discussion is so far from the norm and stays in places like HN, but the boots-on-the-ground reality is so far from what we pretend it is in forums like this, it's like a different planet.
I’ve given up utterly. The US is on track to degrade into oligarchy (we’re already there minds just haven’t caught up to reality), a return to official religions, and a very obvious and strong desire to bring back chattel slavery. We’re already a police state.
This isn't actually true. What is true is that there's nothing we can do that is effective, spectacular, and will yield rapid change. But history shows that there's a lot we can do. Even recent history. The people in power now are a specific and stark example of that. Nothing about their rise to power was sudden or accidental, it's the fruit of decades of determined, hard work. And it worked. So look long term. You build the future one brick at a time.
There are lots of ways to fight. Certainly many ways that I suspect you would consider pointless or misguided, such as joining up with like-minded people and agitating, lobbying, etc., or getting involved with the local government, joining the school board, whatever. Also many ways that just aren't your thing. All of that is normal and good.
You don't have to be an activist of any variety in order to stand up. Just living your life as best and honestly as you can, becoming a part of your community in whatever facet you can, and avoiding supporting (financially and otherwise) companies and other organizations that use their wealth and power in ways you disagree with is, honestly, also standing up and fighting. Maybe even the most important way, on the whole.
"Whatever you do in life will be insignificant but it is very important that you do it because you can't know [its real meaning]."
>And to be clear: I’d happily die for a cause to give my life some meaning.
It's not a bad cause, allowing children to watch pronographie's, but may I suggest some causes one might find more satisfying? 1) cancer 2) cheap and pollutionless energy 3) reliable food supply
all of that will be captured by the oligarchs and the people will still suffer.
we already throw away massive amounts of food to artificially raise profit. basic medicine have their formula frivolously modified to renew patents and keep profits high. considering energy look at america regressing on the daily.
Apparently not, since you're posting such funny stuff here. Remember that you've still got a potential career in stand-up!
Henchman21 says "Tell me, what’s even worth saving?"
What a hoot! This thread is going off the rails with comedy: "US ...degrade into oligarchy...", "we're already there..." , "chattel slavery", "official religions", "police state". Bwahahahaaaaah....!
As long as I can read HN I'll still have great laughs!
The way feel and then vote is a result of the information they are given, which is selected in order to produce the intended result, or “the engineering of consent” as it's put by Bernays.
People don't vote for this. Politicians do. People need to be made aware of what their politicians are up to in their name and encouraged to punish politicians for their acts of treachery at the polls, including the credible threat of a recall election. That, however, would require organizations that aren't a clownshow. I've been singularly unimpressed by the actions of NetChoice (who recently got slammed for handing in "expert testimony" that clearly was written by ChatGPT) and Free Speech Coalition (who clearly are the porn lobby and invariably approach every problem with an approach guaranteed to lose in court). The EFF seems content to wag their finger while doing nothing substantial. The FSF is utterly silent in the face of app store regulations that, if you read them carefully, would ensnare them and anyone else distributing software online, to say nothing of making it impossible to manufacture a PC or operating system that doesn't implement these child-detection controls.
TL;DR We appear to be seriously lacking in leadership and organization.
It's clear that the HN crowd is a bit of an echo chamber. Somehow, these messages of warning are not getting to people who need to hear them in order to stop voting against their own interests.
Well, now I think about it, people vote against their own interests on all kinds of issues. So I suppose this one doesn't have to be any different?