> prior to astral appearing, python's tooling has been beyond terrible, compared to say, Java's
I would concur with you if you said Go, Rust, Ruby, or even heck, PHP, but Java is probably the only language that I know that is in a situation even as bad as Python or even worse (at least for me definitely worse, because at least I understand Python tooling enough even when using it only for hobby projects, while I still don't understand Java tooling enough even after working professionally with JVM languages for 7+ years).
Java is the only language that I know except Python that has multiple project/package managers (Maven, Gradle, probably even more). It also has no concept of lock files in at least Maven/Gradle, and while resolution dependency in Maven/Gradle is supposed to be deterministic, from my experience it is anything but: just a few weeks ago we had a deployment that failed but worked locally/CI because of dependency resolution somehow pulled different versions of the same library.
Fighting dependency hell because different dependencies pull different version constraints is a pain (all Java/JVM projects that I ever worked had some manually pinned dependencies to either fix security issues or to fix broken dependency resolution), and don't even get me in the concept of Uber JARs (that we had to use in previous job because it was the only way to ensure that the dependency tree would be solved correctly; yes maybe it was by incompetence of the team that maintained our shared libraries, but the fact that we even got at that situation is unacceptable).
Oh, and also Gradle is "so fun": it is a DSL that has zero discovery (I had IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate and I could still not get it to auto-complete 60% of the time), so I would just blindly try to discover what where the inputs of the functions. The documentation didn't help because the DSL was so dynamic and every project would use it slightly different, so it was really difficult to discover a way to make it work for that specific project (the examples that I would find would be enough different from my current project that 90% of time it wouldn't work without changing something). Python at least has `pyproject.toml` nowadays, and the documentation from PyPA is good enough that you can understand what you want to do after reading it for 10 minutes.
Even after all the praise, I'd say they're underrated.
Modular.ai raised $100 million to solve tangentially similar problems with python. Astral has already had a much larger impact, while providing better integration with less than 10% of that money.
disagree. modular has a different focus, to turn python into a systems language.
you could even say that astral and modular focus on two extreme ends of the developer experience spectrum - just making python tooling faster, vs making python-ish code faster.
To be clear, I wasn't dunking on Modular. I meant it more as praise for what Astral has achieved. Lattner is a veteran and Mojo seems to be coming along at a good pace. Mojo is admittedly more of a Rust-competitor. Couldn't think of other contemporary "we are trying fix python's problems" companies. So went for the low hanging fruit.
Either way, Python's irritants are the 'stick' that motivates devs to try alternatives. Astral is patching python's problems at lightning speed. Soon, there may not be enough incentive left to migrate off python. I'm assuming Mojo's target customer is an application dev who uses python and not a seasoned system dev looking for a more aesthetic language.
astral have now replaced the awful pip with the fantastic uv
various awful linters with with the fantastic ruff
and now hopefully replacing the terrible type checkers (e.g. mypy) with a good one!
I hope they have the pypi backend on their list too, my kingdom for Maven Central in python!