The government should have just denied her entry if they believed she would violate her visa. I don’t understand the cause for detaining and putting her on the path to deportation.
> The most recent DHS data released this week shows that fewer than 600 people per day have been booked into ICE detention facilities across the country during the first three weeks of February — well below the pace of 1,200 to 1,500 arrests a day that administration officials have said they want.
You can simply search her name to find out what’s actually going on instead of trusting a rage-bait article with no details. She was detained because this wasn’t her first time doing this. They are accusing her of working the last time she was in the U.S. under the VWP. As a result, she is likely being held for prosecution and will be barred from returning.
A quick search shows that in the past, she had posted on social media about being in the U.S. and working. It’s likely that her equipment raised a red flag, and during additional screening, they found those posts. It’s unfortunate for her, but ultimately, it was her own doing.
I know plenty of digital nomads who work in the U.S. without proper visas, but the difference is they keep a low profile. Visa laws aren’t unique to the U.S., and most countries take violations seriously. In fact, the U.S. isn’t even among the strictest.
There’s plenty to be outraged about in the world without making things up.
edit: I'm not going to justify this reddit post with any sources. It's obviously bait and 20 seconds of googling confirms it.
This is all a deflection from the inhumane treatment she has received. But I can’t tell: are you deflecting because it’s an uncomfortable topic, or because you genuinely don’t care that human beings are being treated this way?
How was she treated that's inhumane? What specifically do you take issue with?
If you'd like to go through the article and provide actual examples I'll help you with being a critical reader. When it says something "amounts" to solitary confinment, that isn't the same as saying she was held in solitary confinment. That's shifty reporting trying to spin the facts without the legal repercussions of directly lying. When you get to the part about her having violent outbursts and punching walls until there is "blood everywhere" you might then ask yourself "could this person be a risk to themselves or a cell mate" or maybe "what are the international consequences if she were to harm herself or someone else while in custody?" The world is never black and white and there are plenty of these points in the article where you should be asking questions and maybe looking to other sources for answers.
The article is using her friend/girlfriend as the primary source, even though she is clearly biased and has no actual information, which she has no right to given she isn't a family member, her lawyer, or the German consulate. It's almost like they are purposely ignoring the actual facts and are trying to manufacture an emotional response to get this to go viral and somehow receive a more favorable outcome. Seriously, find an article that isn't tabloid quality. Even better, do a search of reputable German news sources like der Spiegel. If she were actually being hidden away and mistreated they would be reporting on it in Germany.
From the few facts that are available, it sounds like she would have been released and sent back to Germany had she just admitted she fucked up and plead guilty. My guess, mostly just based on the fact that she was punching walls in jail, she lacks some degree of emotional intelligence, doesn't like the idea of being barred from the US, and thinks she can fight it and win. Now she has to remain in custody until she is tried, which will likely be fairly soon, or a deal is worked out. These are processes that were agreed on (and as the last couple sentences of the article mentions is actively being handled) between the respective governments. Anyone caught doing the same in Germany would face similar consequences.
I think what a lot of commenters here don't realize is that most western countries, including the US and Germany, have artist visas for this specific scenario. These are relatively easy to get and would have allowed her to do what she was doing. Instead she chose to commit a federal offense and is paying the price for that choice. I'm not mentioning this to deflect, I'm directly responding to the article which tries to make it sound like she was "doing everything right" and is being unjustly held.
Jail isn't great but it's not actual torture. It's mostly just uncomfortable and extremely boring. It's not anymore cruel or tortuous than it has to be given the circumstances.
> Lofving said Brösche told her about her time in custody — and a particularly difficult nine-day period in what amounted to solitary confinement in a CBP holding cell.
> “She says it was like a horror movie,” Lofving said. “There were people screaming from the rooms all around. They are feeding her through a little mailbox hole. She didn’t have a blanket, she didn’t have a pillow. It’s basically a yoga mat on the ground and a toilet on the corner.”
> Spending that many days in one of CBP’s short-term detention facilities appears to be a violation of the agency's own internal detention standards, which, “generally limit detention in these facilities to 72 hours,” according to a 2023 report from the Office of Inspector General.
> Inspectors conducted unannounced inspections of four short-term facilities in San Diego and El Centro. They found that of the 447 migrants detained in all four stations, 42% of them exceeded the 72-hour standard, with some being there for more than 20 days.
If nothing else, I think it's obvious that most people can't sleep under circumstances like that. After 9+ days of those conditions, you find it at all surprising that she broke?
I find those conditions to be morally repugnant. And frankly, I find attempts at justifying them equally repugnant.
Okay, let's put on our critical reading hat again. What order are these events taking place in? Why isn't the author just using a simple chronological telling of her ordeal? What does it mean to "generally limit" it to 72 hours?
That doesn't sound very concrete; what does it mean to be a standard vs a policy, law, or rule? So most detainees are out before 72 hours, does that sound like they are folowing the "general" standard? What is the median amount of time someone is in there? What is the average? How long are the other 42% in there? When does processing take place? Do they process on Saturday? Sunday? What portion were in there for 4-5 days? How many is "some" when it comes to the 20 days? Is one? If the majority are out in 3 days, why do some take longer? How do they ID a foreign national? How do they know who to call or where to send someone who isn't being cooperative with there identity?
You see, things can be a bit more complicated than how a single ragebait article makes it sound?
I had a fun weekend in college that lead to me spending 6 consecutive days in a county jail, so I'll concede that I might have a better understanding of the setting than you do. The being fed through a "mailbox hole" literally means there is a big slot in the middle of the door that they slide a balanced meal through on a cafeteria tray three times a day at standard times, so everyone can just enjoy their meal in relative peace and safety. How would you propose they do that differently? What do the logistics look like for having dozens of short term inmates, that you might know their identity but really have no idea of their personalities, together in a cafeteria? How would you prefer to eat in this situation? Again, pay attention to the wording of the article. "Basically" a yoga mat is not the same as saying she only had a yoga mat. From my experience it was about 1.5" thick and was more similar to a thick backpacking sleeping pad. I did have a springless, elevated, flat metal platform to put my pad on, but I was in the upper Midwest where it's too cold half the year to sleep directly on the floor so they welded this platform to the wall. The toilet is likely a stainless steel, flushing toilet with a sink built into the back. Personally, I'd prefer having a private toilet but I got to have the fun of sharing mine with my methhead cellmate who didn't have a solid shit the three days he was in the cell with me. How would you do her sleeping situation differently? Remember, this isn't a prison, it's a short term facility where you have no idea of who the inmates are. As for what "amounted" to solitary confinement, what does that mean? Well I imagine it's similar to a county jail. You are in your cell most of the day. You get out in small groups to shower and wash up and you may get an hour of physical time where you might have a basketball or more likely you just walk the perimeter of a tiny gym. It isn't torture, it's just really, really boring. Yeah, there were people in there with real emotional issues that would yell and talk loudly to themselves in their cells, but it is a concrete building with heavy doors and it's annoying but not deafening. It's also not 24-7. Try and yell for an hour. Now imagining doing that all day or night? Or maybe you'd relate more if you think about how your voice is the next day after going to a concert or a loud bar with your friends. Also, the guards are just people too. Talk to a local sheriff deputy who works the county jail. They don't want to be there anymore than the inmates. They are doing a job that is all the worst parts of law enforcement, customer service, and day care, all rolled into one. They don't want to listen to yelling all day and night either and do a fairly decent job of going around and quieting people down and distracting the problem people. As for sleep, that is basically all people do in there. It's the best way to pass time.
A day is waking up at 6am for breakfast, sleep, bodyweight workout in cell, shower, sleep, eat lunch, do problems in your head/day dream, sleep, more thinking, dinner at 5pm, think some more, sleep. It's amazing how much you can force yourself to sleep when that is all you have left to do after a couple days of your brain going a mile a minute from the boredom.
It's not a horror film. The other inmates aren't monsters, they are people too. Though I'm sure to her entitled ass, all those unkempt poors might have seemed pretty scary. They are in the same (possibly worse) situation she is. Everyone just wants to get through it and move on. Which brings up a good point, who are the other inmates? While you are worried about the woman who will soon be back in her wealthy and safe country, with arguably one of the best qualities of life in the world, where do they go? While you defend the lady who was free to come and go from the US as she pleased and willfully broke the law knowing she could have filled out a couple forms and paid a fee to be here legally, there are people in those facilities whose only crime is being born in a shitty country.
Those people would do anything to be in her position. They would do anything just for the chance to have a fraction of the privilege she has. They packed up their families and migrated thousands of miles, sometimes by foot, just for the chance of asylum. No simple form. No guarantee. Just a chance at a better life. What happens to those people? Do you think they are sitting around crying about how horrible jail was? After they get shipped to another third-world country (which may or may not be the country they are from) with no money or way to support themselves, do you think they'll jump on tik-tok and make countless videos about how poorly they were mistreated? You think they'll capitalize on the outrage?
So go ahead and call me repugnant for not being instantly outraged and daring to think critically about the article. Personally, I find what she did, and the narrative her friend is pushing, to be extremely ignorant and orders of magnitude more repugnant. If the system is so awful and the facility is so crowded that they are having trouble moving people out of it in a timely matter, do you think her being their helped it any? Do you think the resources they are using to deal with her emotionally stunted tantrums are well spent? Do you think the resources they are spending as she tries to weasel out of the consequences are well spent? To be that out of touch and entitled is just gross and you are equally gross and entitled for defending it.
I'm sorry, but I don't find any of this to reflect critical thinking. And the fact that you exploded into a 6,611-character wall of text makes me think you must be aware that there is something deeper going on here. Anyway, I don't want to pursue this topic further. I think we've each made it clear where we stand.
Yeah, I'm sorry. I have ADHD and it's late enough my medication has wore off. You may know this already, but ADHD is not just a lack of attention. A common symptom is getting hyper-focused on things I shouldn't. For me that is usually just compulsively editing texts, but I guess it's also writing manifestos.
You started a hellish flamewar with this, and perpetuated it badly downthread. That's seriously not ok and we ban accounts that do it, so please don't do it again.
It's not what this site is for, it destroys what it is for, and it evokes worse from others. Not cool.
p.s. Also, you posted this twice. Please don't do that. (The other one was https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43229712 and I've marked it as a dupe and merged the replies here now.)
You do not put people in solitary confinement for nine days - or twenty days - and without giving them any idea of what is happening, or notifying anyone where they are. This is cruel and unusual punishment.
You would think that being the subject of such awful treatment would have instilled some empathy in you. Instead, it seems to have turned you into an awful, vindictive human being. Please seek professional help to deal with your trauma.
You will be happy to know that the detained person was a White Australian. By the way, whenever I see pictures of US border patrol officers, many of them are not White.
> You will be happy to know that the detained person was a White Australian
Absolutely, now Bogan Barry knows how it feels on Nauru or Christmas Island.
I'm a Brown American, but after this election and others across western nations, I've come to realize you Firangis won't come to help us. You only speak out when it's one of you guys facing this kind of dehumanization, not us.
I'm sure you have legitimate reasons to be frustrated, and have been describing things that really happen and double standards that really exist.
At the same time, perpetuating race war on HN, which is what your comments in this thread are doing, is not ok. It only makes things worse, so please stop and please don't do it again.
p.s. The people breaking the site guidelines in response to you ought not to have been doing that either, of course. I've responded to those now, or at least most of them.
No, he's just pointing out the double standards, and I agree with this sentiment. It's very difficult to visit the US (or really any Western country) with my passport, and always has been. You have to put in a lot of money and collect many pieces of paper for even a tourist visit (forget about working there or — god forbid — trying to legally immigrate), and there's a large chance you will be denied regardless. Nobody gives a flying fuck about this.
The outrage here is that she was detained. One thing is to be denied entry even when you did everything right, another is to be detained for an indefinite period of time.
Yep. Becuase I'm tired of this holier than thou crap.
It's very easy to follow visa laws as a German national to the US. You don't face any of the same amounts of hurdles that non-Western nationals face.
And your countries would treat us the same if we didn't have a US passport (I remember those experiences in Frankfurt Airport before and after I got the American passport)
The thing is, in Europe, precisely in European Union, people can travel and work freely with minimum formalities across all 28 EU countries and in Norway. It's easy for European citizen (and the person in question was from Germany which is an EU member) to forget that some countries are still that deeply not civilized.
Notwithstanding that, the person should just be deported immediately, but instead was detained for multiple weeks. Is it how it supposed to be dealing with visitors?
Because the EU does not treat US citizens in this way and on average it is far more unlikely that a German wants to be an illegal immigrant in the US. It is not hard to understand.
You know how Germany treats refugees? They let them stab 2 year old children and hide their identity in the press so as not to offend them.
And AfD now has 152 seats in the Bundestag, and as a result the CDU/CSU will have to become equally anti-immigrant.
This is the only way Germans will learn, just like the only way us Americans will learn about the dangers of populism is getting burnt and abused by DOGE.
> Before I got my US passport, the German immigration staff would always treat me like shit, but with the US passport, I'd make sure to flaunt it so I'm not treated like yet another South Asian or Middle Eastern national.
Given the behavior of the current administration, I fear soon you will be back to be treated the old way even with US passport.
Oh? My understanding so far was that she claims to have wanted to visit a friend in the USA, and is only accused of wanting to work. Can you please pinpoint to me where you got the information?
> CBP agents at the border accused Brösche of planning to violate the terms of the visa waiver program by intending to work as a tattoo artist during her trip to LA, Lofving said
Yes. Accused. That article does not mention anything else.
I personally believe that just an accusation is NOT enough to justify that treatment. In fact I don't believe that even if she did intend to work the correct thing would have been to send her back. But an accusation?!
When transiting an international border in the US, visa status information is available to CBP along with a quick perusal of the person's social media (EU states do the same if not in a VWP program).
Her social media has shown she was working as a tattoo artist on tour in LA with dates - direct violation of the VWP because it's an employment role.
This makes no sense. What law do you think she violated? And you're certainly painting Latin immigrants with a wide brush, there are a TON of us who came in illegally.
Expedited removal is part of their existing authority to deal with fraud and misrepresentation with visa entry requirements.
It only requires a few hours to process and results in a five year ban from the United States as a deterrent. Detaining someone indefinitely under these specific circumstances is not something that happens in France and Germany. And until now wasn’t something that was happening in the United States.
Formal deportation does not require imprisonment for weeks, I personally know someone deported on arrival from Spain and they were sent back to their home country a few hours later. There's no reason to do it, it costs more for the country deporting someone, it doesn't improve the deterrence since the deported will be banned from entry for a while.
> but based on the German election results, there's no hope.
I think in a perfect and just universe, the most fitting end for this post would be for it to be perfectly preserved, with your actual name, in perpetuity, in the worlds most popular and enduring history textbook. Imagine your children's grandchildren reading this sublime example of the casual banal brutality of our time, even among regular everyday people.
I sincerely hope for that future for you, and for all of us.
I agree that a month was far too long and she should have been sent back much sooner. But, she 100% intended to violate her visa and I simply can't imagine calling a criminal being imprisoned for 1 month before being sent home, "brutality".
I would yell this from the rooftops loud and proud if I was running for office in the Bay Area as a D (because I worked with them early in my career and am a party member).
Most 1st and 1.5gen Asian and Latiné Americans would agree with this statement I gave.
> The point is to make an example so no one else tries these shenanigans.
This is complete bollocks. She did not try these shenanigans.
> The fact that a German thinks she can use the VWP like that absolutely ticks me off.
How dares she enter the country with a valid passport, having done all the paperwork correctly, a good reason and a return ticket? Seriously, what the actual fuck are you on about? You’re ok with a tourist being punished for no reason whatsoever because somehow you have a beef with some immigrants?
