Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

> I'm not sure we'd want to have an unelected executive agencies that is unaccountable to head of the executive branch. That just wouldn't even make sense.

Independent agencies, that execute their mission rather than the whims of one man (and are accountable to the law) don't make sense to you?




No, not at all. Who are they accountable to? Nobody?

Anyone who knows even US Civics 101 would recoil at such an idea.


Have you heard of the courts?

The president can settle any issues between their view, the agency head’s view, and the agency’s guiding laws, in the courts.

The courts are their specifically to settle disagreements.

That’s how the law works for agencies. That’s how the law works for all laws.

Three branches checking each other.


They are accountable to the courts, whose job it is to decide if they are faithfully fulfilling the laws laid out by Congress.


Sure, but that's true before and after this EO.

What I'm talking about is accountability for interpretation of the law.

Let's say the head of an agency decides their interpretation of the law is X, but the President thinks it's Y. You can't bring them to court because X and Y fall within the interpretation of law.

If agencies were not accountable to the President, you basically have an unelected/unaccountable (when it comes to policy within interpretation of the law) bureaucrat that the voters are unable to hold accountable.

With this EO, the voters can elect a President who can then direct the agency head to execute interpretation Y.

That seems like the more idea scenario?


The president names the agency heads, and their mandates expire roughly or exactly at the same time as the president's. That's more than enough control. The president can't and shouldn't then go and get into the weeds of specific policies that those agency heads then coordinate.

Also, settling the ultimate interpretation of the law is indeed the prerogative of the courts. This has actually changed quite recently in some ways - the SC has recently struck down the Chevron Doctrine, which held that the courts would defer to the executive when a law could be interpreted in different ways. So right now if Congress passes a law that says "the EPA shall insure that American citizens have potable drinking water", it is ultimately up to the courts to decide if the level of lead in water set by the EPA makes the water potable or not.

But however you slice it, the president shouldn't be the one to decide if the level of lead in water being enforced by the EPA is too little or too much. If the head of the EPA and the courts believe that a certain level is good enough, than that's that. After all, the president chose this head of the EPA. The next president can choose another head.


It's to be seen how "interpretation" is interpreted, if the president can declare it doesn't mean what it clearly does.

If a law is too much subject to interpretation, anyhow, the congress, which is the branch deputed at making the law, can change it at any time.

And most of all, I'm not sure in the US case, but when there are interpretation disputes you typically can have courts declare what's the correct interpretation.


> Let's say the head of an agency decides their interpretation of the law is X, but the President thinks it's Y. You can't bring them to court because X and Y fall within the interpretation of law.

Uh, who is “you” in this scenario? Because for most reasonable values, yes, you can.

Differing interpretations of the law by different executive branch officers have never stopped outside parties from suing those executive officers over their execution of the law, with the courts ultimately deciding the correct interpretation (sometimes with some degree of deference, but never absolute, to executive interpretations.)


Again, they're accountable to the laws that regulate them and the judicial system, in their every action.

It's something extremely common in normal democracies, and if it's really antithetical to US civics, that's just another proof that the US were only a pretence of a democratic system.


Also, they're run by people appointed by elected officials, just like any other government agency. They serve according to laws passed by the people's representatives and signed by the president, and they can be removed from their positions according to the law, as well. The theory that all executive authority must stem from the president's will and be subject to his whim is novel, monarchical, and highly dangerous.


And those laws make them accountable in explicitly specified manner to the President, who is empowered to remove them, but only for enumerated causes.


If it's so they're hardly independent agencies, and the point of this executive order is indeed to eliminate the independence.


No because "independent agency" just mean the agency was established by law, with a specific mandate and regulations that the President can't independently change.

It doesn't mean the agency isn't a part of the Executive branch with the President at it's head and it doesn't mean the President can't fire them for specific reasons.


Again, if the president can have a strong influence on them, they're not independent, however they might get called


Congress




Consider applying for YC's Fall 2025 batch! Applications are open till Aug 4

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: