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The attempted murder charge was dropped.

Under our system that means he should be considered innocent of it.

This conversation is messy mostly because people are refusing to do that, which is akin to vigilantism.

A good faith discussion should only involve the charge he was convicted of and pardoned for, which is the narcotics charge.




The prosecution dropped the charges. That does not make anyone innocent.


The presumption of innocence is a legal principle that every person accused of any crime is considered innocent until proven guilty.

Under the presumption of innocence, the legal burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which must present compelling evidence to the trier of fact (a judge or a jury). If the prosecution does not prove the charges true, then the person is acquitted of the charges.


> The presumption of innocence is a legal principle that every person accused of any crime is considered innocent until proven guilty.

That should be "considered innocent by the legal system". People are still free to come to their own conclusions--and act on them--even without a jury rendering a verdict.

Rather famously, for example, OJ Simpson was acquitted by a jury of murdering his wife. But most people these days would agree with the statement that he murdered his wife.


> That should be "considered innocent by the legal system"

Which is what matters when determining sentences.

> People are still free to come to their own conclusions--and act on them

People are definitely not free to act on their conclusions. That's vigilantism, what the comment above was referring to.


glove didn't fit


had to acquit


It is also the case that prosecutors need to decide both the probability of conviction, the effort needed to do so and whether likely conviction on other serious charges are sufficient for the people to feel that justice has been done.


And if the prosecution doesn't like the probability of conviction, they doubt their ability to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, guilt.

There can be whatever reason he wasn't convicted, it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't and presumed innocence is the legal default.


My understanding is they never brought the charges in the first place. The supposed online hitman and the victim were both FBI informants. They never filed any charges because it was clearly entrapment and no one was ever in any danger.

The prosecutors later used that evidence as support for their sentencing request after Ross was convicted of only non-violent offenses, which has a much lower standard of evidence. The allegations of murder-for-hire were never tested at trial. They may have evaporated under cross-examination by a competent defense. Our system of justice holds that Ross is innocent of those allegations unless convicted at trial.


For purposes of a criminal conviction and locking them away (or the death penalty), sure. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

For purposes of random citizens saying "he tried to commit murder", no. We're absolutely not bound by that same standard of proof.


It typically means there isn't enough evidence to convict. With the presumption of innocence, it in fact does infer he's innocent of the charges.


It does. Innocent until proven guilty.


Presumed innocent.

You don't become guilty or innocent based on legal proceedings. The point of a case is to establish guilt for the purpose of punishment.

But an innocent person doesn't become "guilty" even when the evidence shows that in the court. A guilty person remains guilty whether a court can prove it or not.


He should be considered innocent by the courts - and he was (innocent of the murder for hire charges, I mean). In the public we aren't obligated to follow the same standards of evidence as the courts. I think he almost certainly did pay to have those people killed, and that can shape my opinion of him.


That's perfectly reasonable - but I don't think it should really have a bearing on whether he should be pardoned. That is not exactly a matter of the courts (by definition), but I think as an official public act it should be subject to the presumption of innocence as well.


> Under our system that means he should be considered innocent of it.

Nope. This doesn't mean anything, and the charges can be picked up again.

Oh wait, no. He was pardoned completely.


No no no, even absent a pardon, because those charges were dismissed with prejudice. That means they cannot be brought again.


Ah, thanks. I thought they were dismissed without prejudice. Thanks for the correction.




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