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Try using a unit per person. It starts to look much less rosy for Waymo and also do not forget roads are still public infrastructure that has to be paid for and maintained.

What, you think Waymo will be able to weasel out of road tax or drive without roads?






> Try using a unit per person

Not relevant when we’re comparing project costs. OP argued we should devote self-driving resources to public transit. I’m arguing that’s nonsense.

> roads are still public infrastructure that has to be paid for and maintained

Sure. But that isn’t a new funding commitment. Cancelling Waymo won’t reduce our road costs.


>OP argued we should devote self-driving resources to public transit.

Yes, because it would allow moving people more cost-effectively (among other things) - which is measured per person per unit distance traveled. (I'm not OP, but nothing in this discussion is even remotely new for transit advocates like myself.)


> because it would allow moving people more cost-effectively (among other things)

Add last-mile and model for the real American population distribution. Not an imagined America where everyone lives on Manhattan.

Not all miles travelled are equal. In value, urgency or desirability and thus price willing to be paid. Complaining about self driving cars is asinine. The scales are wrong. The problems are wrong. The places are wrong.

> nothing in this discussion is even remotely new for transit advocates like myself

I mean, exactly. We’re urbanising without commensurate increases in public transit. Deployment or use. Perhaps that hints at a change being in order.


>Add last-mile and model for the real American population distribution. Not an imagined America where everyone lives on Manhattan.

Last I checked, Waymo also operates exclusively in urban areas.


> Waymo also operates exclusively in urban areas

There is no proximate future where public transit makes sense in Wyoming. There are multiple where self-driving cars do.


Self-driving cars are public transit depending on the terms of use; but I assume we're really talking about mass transit here.

When I was in Germany 25 years ago, a district of about 25k people (less than 1k per square mile) had multiple bus routes (4 IIRC) connecting the main town to other settlements, running through farmland. It was not unduly expensive and the locals certainly seemed to think it made sense. Children would take it to school in lieu of a dedicated school-owned service.

There's a light rail system in Rennes, France (city population about 225k; metro about 750k - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennes) that's longer than the PATH system in the NYC area and almost as well used (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metro_systems).

Even Iceland has public buses, both local and inter-city (https://www.straeto.is/en).




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