Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD-adapted body doubling

[christalwang]

https://www.tella.tv/video/cm2xgdn2m000803l48ovf8b1c/view

I’m Chris, one of the co-founders of Shimmer. In 2022, following my ADHD diagnosis, I launched Shimmer (https://shimmer.care), a 1:1 ADHD Coaching for adults (HN launch here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33468611 ). One problem we discovered while running 1:1 coaching is that people weren’t able to actually follow through (in real life) on the ideas they came up with during their weekly sessions with their coach.

There is a concept called body doubling that’s popular within the ADHD community—it’s basically getting things done in the presence of other people. The positive accountability is proven to work. However, our members told us they tried other body doubling solutions or attempted to organize it themselves in real life but none of the solutions stuck. So we reverse engineered productive moments our members described, paired with scientific backing of what motivates ADHD-ers, and designed an online body doubling experience for our coaching members that provides a safe but productive space for them to get things done between weekly sessions.

A few of the motivators we infused into the traditional body doubling experience were 1) newness/novelty — each session has a different guided experience in the break like breathwork or stretching, 2) urgency — there’s a large visible pomodoro timer on the top left that counts down from 25 min, 3) community — the shared space is ADHD-friendly, and has a mood check-in & sharing functionality built in so you don’t feel alone, 4) accountability — there’s a task list where each time you check something off, it notifies the group, and you can view others’ as well if they opt in. Here’s a video walking through the product experience: https://www.tella.tv/video/shimmer-body-doubling-demo-8b1c

Our body doubling was created and iterated alongside thousands of people with ADHD on our coaching platform over 9+ months of building & iterating with them. We’re excited to unveil this experience. If you have ADHD (or executive functioning challenges), we’d love for you to check out coaching & body doubling and give us critical feedback.

Shimmer’s pricing: $140/mo. for Essentials plan (15-min weekly sessions), $230/mo. for Standard plan (30-min weekly sessions), $345/mo. for Immersive plan (45-min weekly sessions); all plans start with an additional 25% off the first month, HSA/FSA-eligible. The reason why the price is so high is that this is not a self-guided app or SaaS tool. You’re matched with a real, credentialed coach (not AI) and since ADHD coaching is not reimbursed in the US, the price is hard for us to bring down because the largest cost component is the coach’s compensation.

*We know these prices are still expensive for many people with ADHD. Here are the actions we’re taking: (1) we offer needs-based scholarships and aim to have 5% of members on them at any time, (2) we often run fully sponsored scholarships with our partners—over 60 full ride scholarships and 100 group coaching spots have been disbursed alongside Asian Mental Health Project, Government of Canada, and more, and (3) we have aligned our coaching model alongside Health & Wellness Coaching, which is expected to be reimbursed in the next years. If there are ways we can further drive down the cost, please reach out to me directly at chris@shimmer.care.

[geor9e]

Before smartphones existed, a dozen friends and I would sit on webcam for hours, mostly in silence, just doing our things. Studying, surfing the web, whatever. It was a website called tinychat.com . It was a decade before zoom calls. We would carry our laptops around the campus wifi, chilling in the private webcam room, 4x4 grid of feeds, push to talk. Some would leave it on 24/7. It was kind of like this concept, except not $140/hour, and no coach. Most of us were very ADHD. The coffee shop vibe did help us focus on our work.

[ngthatsme]

As someone with ADHD, I think this is a great idea. Yes it's expensive, but the reason why a lot of neurotypical solutions don't work for me is because they lack design details and nuances that the ADHD brain requires. I've spoken to non-ADHD therapists in the past (great for some things!), and have also spoken with ADHD coaches and there is a difference.

[day_visit]

There is a discord channel that has rooms you can join to study with others, including rooms with camera/screen share. It also tracks your time studied, has channels to talk about progress/goals etc. https://discord.gg/study

[christalwang → day_visit]

Nice, thanks for the share!!

[sdoering]

> credentialed coach

Is this a legal term? Is there any real qualification, proven behind this? Or is it like in Germany, where anyone could call themself a "credentialed coach" and "help" other people.

Because professional help from a therapist would surely be called such, wouldn't it?

Especially from a platform that allows racist hatred onto their comment section.

[christalwang → sdoering]

The 2 credentialing bodies we hire from are International Coaching Federation (ICF) and National Board Health & Wellness Coaches (NBC-HWC).

But yes, anyone can call themselves a coach. They would not be credentialed though.

That's one of the challenges I personally felt when I was looking for a coach when I was diagnosed and couldn't really figure out what was legit and what wasn't. That's part of the mission behind Shimmer too, so that members know that if they come to Shimmer, they're getting a qualified coach who has went through a robust screening process, and undergo ongoing supervision, training, and community! Actually only 3.7% of qualified coaches who apply actually get through our 4-step process.

[ayakang31415]

Is it proven method? If so, insurance should cover it so you don't have to pay subscription fees out of your pocket. If not, don't bother. There are thousands of services like this, and I have not heard any one of them that worked for the vast majority of people with ADHD.

[penjelly]

I suspect twitch is a pseudo form of whatever this is, also, coffee shops

[christalwang → penjelly]

Yes, exactly! You can do body doubling in so many different ways. In real life you can do coffee shops, libraries, having friends over to study/work, or even just calling your mom while you do dishes. These are all technically body doubling. Online there are also options that all have slightly different styles. Key is finding what works for you. For example, focusmate is 1:1 where you meet up with a stranger and what's cool about that service is that you can log on pretty much any time of the day and find someone to work with. There are also tons of communities and creators who will host body doubling as a part of whatever else they're doing!

[tchock23]

I'd love a "slimmed down" version of this since the UI looks really clean and usable. I don't need the coaches, and having an ongoing jump in/out session would be cool. Is something like that available or on the roadmap?

[christalwang → tchock23]

This is something that gets asked a lot. We're exploring what it would look like to have only body doubling and our other asynchronous features pulled out as a separate experience. Some things we're thinking through are

- What impact this will have on the current body doubling experience, where there's a certain "vibe" knowing that every other person in the room is actively engaging in coaching and you can ask them questions about their coaching etc.

- How that will change our team's focus since that product will require larger amounts of moderation, community management, and other tasks that we aren't currently focusing on. Since we're a small team (and mostly neurodivergent), we need to make sure we're super focused in our messaging and efforts

HOWEVER, it is definitely in the medium term roadmap. I think if we get enough people asking for it, it could get pulled forward.

Curious what you use now and what you like/ don't like about it — are you on other body doubling platforms?

[zavec → tchock23]

A little up the thread somebody linked a discord server that seems aimed at that kind of idea.

[NGRhodes]

Shimmer, body doubling - inspired by the film Annihilation ?

[christalwang → NGRhodes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi3K-CApAS4

[decide1000]

I actually like this Idea.

[christalwang → decide1000]

Thanks! Let us know if you have feedback if/when you give it a try. Here to answer any questions!

[NMushroom]

Hello, have you considered switching to opt-in privacy choices? Not all ADHD persons will read the privacy policy, and yours is a doozy.

[christalwang → NMushroom]

We think a lot about how to structure our privacy policies so that it's not overwhelming, and is understandable.

In instances where it makes sense, we explicitly put the opt-in privacy choices right when that choice is necessary. For example, members have to opt-in (and coaches... double-opt in) before every single session if they want a summary to be generated after the call. We chose this route even though many of our members who opt in every time have given us the feedback that they wish they could just opt in once and never opt in again.

[devmor]

My question is why anyone but a few people would want to pay $140-$340/mo for a therapy-based approach not covered by insurance to a condition that is successfully treated in the vast majority of patients with medication that costs $10-20/mo with insurance?

It is a very cool approach to a well documented and tested therapeutic practice, I just don't see the value proposition unless you're someone that specifically could not find any class of medication that worked for them.

[throwway120385 → devmor]

Medication has side effects, and it can be really difficult to access unless you can find a psychiatrist who is accepting of the idea that an adult has ADD/ADHD. I knew someone who tried to get it as an adult and she spent 3 years going between therapists and psychiatrists to build up enough history to be prescribed medication.

[kstrauser → throwway120385]

I am eternally grateful that a friend turned me on to a local doctor who does video calls[0]. I'd struggled with getting in to see someone willing to take my complaints seriously[1], but a week after signing up for an online visit I had a prescription for something that's been life-changing.

For me, personally, the whole effect of the meds are that I'm slightly more awake, as though I drank a cup of stout coffee, and I can more easily decide what to work on and then work on it. I'm fortunate to have had zero adverse reactions.

[0]And then, knowing their clientele, texts and emails the heck out of me to remind me about upcoming appointments, which isn't strictly necessary but is understandable and appreciated.

[1]One doc told me I had trouble focusing because of anxiety. "Do you know what you might be anxious about?" "Yeah, not being able to focus." That wasn't a productive visit.

[christalwang → throwway120385]

Yeah, so many people have horror stories with medication, especially with the shortage going on right now and need immediate support. I've personally been impacted by the medication shortage, and many of our members.

[mrandish → christalwang]

My N=1 experience has been remarkable success with medication. Of course, it does require some work and time to find the right med(s) and dosing. Also, the shortage was previously a problem in my very large HMO but early this year it started getting better and by about 5-6 months ago supply has returned to normal.

[n8cpdx → devmor]

I’m skeptical of the pricing, but I could see it having value for working professionals or students who are at risk of failing out and don’t have good support on campus.

I personally have ADHD, and I’m medicated. The medication makes it possible to focus on tasks, not guaranteed. I still have to engage cognitive skills and essentially implement a system similar to this, just without a coach. Specifically: break down tasks, use a Pomodoro timer, walk and make tea between focus sessions, put the phone away, use environmental cues like specific work music, etc.

Sleep and exercise are also incredibly important for success with ADHD, and the stimulant medications can interfere with both, so I could see coaching being useful there as well, not sure if the service offers help there.

[NegativeK → n8cpdx]

I don't want to respond to the top comment so it doesn't look attackish, but expecting the medication to completely cure the symptoms for everyone is laughably wrong.

I've got decades of learned behaviors to deal with. And while my doctor was correct in that a medication that works will be like night and day (I'd rephrase it as life changing), I still struggle more than I like.

[christalwang → NegativeK]

100%. Medication is one piece of the pie for many people but definitely not the whole for most. Thanks for sharing a piece of your ADHD story though, I think more people need to hear stories like ours (and others) so that they don't feel discouraged if they try ADHD meds and it doesn't act as a magic pill as they expected. This expectation is dangerous.

[christalwang → n8cpdx]

Love what you said about sleep and exercise. In the Shimmer app, we call this "Lifestyle Medicine" but it's basically the foundational pieces of your life that keeps your body running as it should. And this should 100% be considered before more complex treatments. For us we include sleep, exercise, and food/nutrition.

That's awesome that you have a whole bunch of skills that you've found that works for you! For some people, this takes months to figure out the right mix since what works for someone may not work for others. And also, HOW you do something is almost more important than WHAT skill you're using. I would also add that in coaching, in addition to skills, the coach is supporting in long-term thinking, goal setting, so that there's a direction forward as well, which is really important. I like the quote "medication is like glasses, it helps you see more clearer but it doesn't teach you how to read". I think about this quote a lot because for me, the value of coaching has been to help me set a new direction in life, be reflective in what I want, then work to build an ADHD-friendly life around me that helps me go in that direction.

Totally hear you on pricing. We're working on a few routes around reimbursement, partnerships with schools/workplaces, etc. Right now we are HSA/FSA eligible and also many of our members get it paid for through their work's L&D budget or disability/DEI budgets. Of course, that's a bit harder because it requires them to disclose. We also do a whole ton of scholarships for anyone with a financial need!

[aidenn0 → devmor]

I'm not a Shimmer user, but a few things:

1. Insurance doesn't always cover ADHD medication, and when it does it can be a pain; every time my employer switched insurers I had to change my medication because the new insurer wouldn't cover the same thing the previous insurer covered. I've never had insurance cover my psychiatrist either, which amortizes out to about $100/mo.

2. Stimulant medication improves symptoms for over 80% of people with ADHD but "normalizes" about 1/3. So If you are in the 2/3 people that still have some ADHD symptoms on medication, then you're still going to have to cultivate healthy coping mechanisms.

3. Sometimes you go on a trip and forget to bring your medication, or you forget to bring the monthly prescription into the pharmacy on time (no refills on Schedule II substances), or your pharm is out of your meds. Now you are temporarily unmedicated and still need to function.

[kstrauser → aidenn0]

Regarding #1: my insurance pays for 100% of my meds. It seems like the extended release versions are the hardest to get covered, but people who can get by with the plain old all-at-one formulations may have a much easier time with that. Also, insurance doesn't pay for my doctor directly, but their website has a place for me to submit out of network claims. I do that with my doctor's receipts and insurance cuts me a reimbursement check for a large portion of the bill.

It's a pain in the neck in the sense that getting all the insurance stuff straight is extra hard when you're in need of being treated for ADHD in the first place. It does give me something to hyperfocus on every couple of months.

[christalwang → kstrauser]

My insurance also covers my meds but there's still a million things that end up getting in the way of me actually getting it. I won't get into the details but things like working memory with appointments, booking the right appointments, getting vitals, the med shortage and navigating calling different pharmacies, and much more. I have a lot of horror stories (that are mainly my fault and due to my ADHD) and similar stories from our members/community.

It's great that you've got it largely down though!

Personally, I like to know that I have a foundation (and a person) to fall back on when all the med stuff doesn't pan out the way I want it to (which is unfortunately frequently), and a big part of the value of coaching & body doubling too is community and not going through this alone.

[kstrauser → christalwang]

I hear ya. It's a cruel situation. I've likened it to building an asthma clinic on top of a mountain: if I could jump through all these hoops, I probably wouldn't need the help in the first place.

I absolutely, 100%, completely agree that the medicine is only a small part of it. I have a hundred little rituals and coping mechanisms that had let me manage my life without it. Small examples:

- Appointments go straight to my calendar the instant I schedule something. If something's not on my calendar, it doesn't exist. I make liberal use of early reminders, too.

- I'm not a GTD purist, but I track it pretty closely. When I say I'll do something, I put it in my inbox. Same as with my calendar: if a to-do isn't in my to-do app, it's not getting to-done. There's nothing I've committed to that isn't in one of those 2 places.

There are plenty of others that I've been doing so long that they're unconscious habit.

These are the things that work for me. If the things you talk about work for you, and other people are willing to pay you to help get them on track, excellent!

[aidenn0 → kstrauser]

Extended release was hard with some, but I had one insurer that would only pay for 1 pill per day, so I had to use ER with them.

[kstrauser → aidenn0]

I have heard ahem that you could get 30 pills that were each an entire day's dose, cut them in half, and take them as 60 separate doses. For example, you and the doc think you should take 10mg in the morning and 10mg at lunch, so get a prescription for 30 20mg pills and buy a pill chopper.

Purely rumor, I'm sure.

[aidenn0 → kstrauser]

That would work if the pharmacy reliably provided tablets rather than capsules.

[ajb → aidenn0]

When I was tapering off a capsule med, I used to pull the two halves of the capsule apart, pour out a bit of the powder, and plug the halves back together. Not amazingly accurate I admit. But it shows that it's not impossible to disassemble and manipulate at least some kinds of capsule, tedious though it is to do.

[TeMPOraL → ajb]

Last time I tried that, I had to vacuum the stuff from the floor. Turns out some CR capsules are filled with a lot of tiny little frictionless spherical pellets instead of powder.

[ajb → TeMPOraL]

Probably "Extended Release". The ingredient is coated with a range of thicknesses, so that different ones become bioavailable after different lengths of time in the gut. That is actually what my "powder" was

I had a way to avoid spilling them, but it's too long ago and I don't remember what it was.

[christalwang → aidenn0]

1. Agree, and to add in all the steps it takes to actually get meds consistently (not a 1-time solve) + the med shortage that a lot of people have been impacted by 2. Yes and some of our members can't take stimulant medication because of other conditions they have that require meds that don't mix with stimulants 3. Yup!

[christalwang → devmor]

Coaching is different from talk therapy in that it's focused on more action-oriented, future-oriented concerns. For example, in therapy, you'll talk about WHY / WHERE a specific thought process came from, vs. in therapy you'll talk about how you can design your life in a way that minimizes impact of this thought process. Things like calendar design, routine design, how you do to do lists, skills you may need to learn, the list goes on. These are things that ADHD coaches are trained on and things that therapists likely won't support with. Also, coaching is about accountability so things like check-ins throughout the week and nudge/reminders are a key part of ADHD coaching but not therapy.

Also many of our clients have done (or are currently doing) therapy and come to Shimmer because their therapist suggested it.

And on your point of medication, many people do not want to take medication (cultural or other reasons), or cannot take medication (e.g. side effects or can't mix with their other meds).

[givinguflac → devmor]

I totally agree with you, and find the price a big turn off. I pay $30 a month for my meds, this I’m sure would help but no way could I justify the expense.

[bbor → devmor]

I don't think medication "treats" ADHD in the sense of solving it completely. For one thing, we're living through an Adderal shortage, for another it doesn't last all day, and, most importantly, it isn't a cure-all, especially at the low dosages required for responsible long term use. As another commenter rightfully said, the downsides are also significant, especially in terms of exhaustion -- headaches are also a commonly reported one for methamphetamine.

It's a lifesaver, but it's kinda like Ozempic: it enables you to follow through on your self-improvement goals, it doesn't do them for you.

Also, some people don't have health insurance. We do exist, sadly -- 25 million of us, as of 2023: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2024/... Typically, a diagnosis/new psych appointment costs $250-350 OOP, and the monthly checkups cost anywhere from $100-200 (unless you can find someone willing to break the rules for you and prescribe without 30d checkins). The baffling coupon system does mean that the refills themselves are cheap, somehow, but I've paid $60 before just because the coupon wasn't working and I couldn't be bothered to go home and figure it out and go without meds for X days.

Of course that all becomes easier if you're willing to stick with non-controlled substances, but still

[Dilettante_ → bbor]

>non-controlled substances

Could you elaborate? The ones I know of are St. John's Wort(though that's more for depressive symptoms) and Phenylpiracetam.

[hypatiadotca → Dilettante_]

Guanfacine and clonidine are two non-controlled meds approved for ADHD. They are second line treatments; all the first line treatments are stimulants, because they have the best evidence behind them.

[astrange → hypatiadotca]

The stimulants also have fewer and simpler side effects. But they don't work 24/7, At least not if you want to sleep.

[astrange → Dilettante_]

Strattera and Intuniv are ADHD medicines that are not controlled substances.

Do not take St. John's Wort! That's got all kinds of side effects.

[christalwang → bbor]

Yeah, medication does not solve ADHD at all. Medication is like glasses, it gives you the ability to see clearer (focus, etc.) but doesn't teach you how to read or give you direction.

A lot of our members come to Shimmer after getting a diagnosis and the right dose of medication, or even with a therapist. And from that more calm, ready place, can they engage in the thought processes around planning for the future, building skills, etc.

[devmor → christalwang]

> Yeah, medication does not solve ADHD at all.

Some really great discussion going on in the replies here but this is where you’ve lost the plot.

For millions of people, medication does in fact solve ADHD. Making misrepresentative blanket statements about the efficacy of medical treatment to promote your product as more necessary is not okay.

If you are looking to have your program eventually treated as a covered therapy under insurance, this kind of messaging can really hurt you.

[christalwang → devmor]

Sorry, maybe I should have reworded. I meant to say "medication does not solve all of ADHD", "medication does not solve ADHD for all". Hm, still thinking of the right wording.

I use medication myself, so by no means am I anti-medication.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that it's not a magic pill. And there are side effects as well. If you can layer in foundational lifestyle medicine and good, healthy choices, that makes the world of difference and can potentially allow you to take less medication.

The reason I say this is because we get SO many people who come to us feeling dejected that they put all their hope on medication and when their life didn't immediately get to where they'd like, they felt like there was no hope, like there is no other alternative.

I don't need people to use Shimmer, I just want people to know there's hope if your meds don't work, and there are other solutions beyond meds. This could be therapy, coaching, self-management, and other tools!

[scyzoryk_xyz]

These people are back again.

If you have an ADHD problem get a licensed therapist, get medication, get into a group, read about and study your condition and do sports. I.e. solutions are IRL.

Yeah it’s going to be way more expensive, but the solution to a medical condition is not some slick-UI $140/month gaslight snake-oil “coach” BS.

[helsinki]

-

[aidenn0 → helsinki]

There are 4.3 weeks per month, so you are off by a factor of 4.3

i.e. you get a little over 1 hour of 1:1 coach time per month for the 15 minute weekly sessions.

[edit] I originally wrote 4.3 weeks per year which is wrong.

[helsinki → aidenn0]

Ah, yes, thank you for pointing that out. Sorry OP, I thought you charged for every session like a normal therapist, but you charge for every 4.3 sessions. I’m deleting my comment to avoid false disparagement. This is a much more reasonable price. The imputed annual ‘salary’ is $260,465, which makes sense, given the cost of running a business and the development of the platform.

Here’s a thought: Outsiders can approximate your cash flow by scraping the number of unique therapists and calculating their hours worked by analyzing their availability windows. Something worth thinking about, I suppose.

[christalwang → helsinki]

I didn't see the original post, but yes we charge per month which is just over 4 sessions. The price also includes all of our events, body doubling, learning modules, and task list tools (in other apps these other features in itself cost $40+/mo., and events require maintenance as well).

Yes, agreed. People can probably back into our cash flow, but we have been pretty transparent at each funding round anyway. Not trying to hide anything!

[rchaud]

Why on earth do you have an open comments section on your landing page? One that is currently being deluged with racist and abusive messages no less?

[christalwang → rchaud]

I only shared this video with Hacker News today, so the comments are from this community. I just signed up for Tella today also, and they aren't allowing me to disable it or delete comments self-serve. I've contacted their support so hopefully I can hear back soon and disable it!

[vladsanchez → christalwang]

Why reinvent the wheel with something as glitchy as Tella!? Just post it on YouTube!!!!

[christalwang → vladsanchez]

I really wanted the Zoom feature, but maybe it wasn't worth it.

[anigbrowl → rchaud]

A better question might be why some people on HN think this is an acceptable way to behave.

[christalwang → anigbrowl]

Agree

[christalwang → rchaud]

Update, it's off now. Thanks for the flag!

[hombre_fatal → reneberlin]

Your comment makes no sense. "Leave them alone" as if this isn't some transactional service.

If nobody finds this service useful, it goes away. If people find it useful, then what's the problem.

I'm very glad that there are people out there trying to come up with new ways to help others, even if they are compelled by money like the pharmaceutical company who made my essential medicine.

And it's nice to try out some new options beyond getting cracked out on amphetamine the rest of your life.

[reneberlin → hombre_fatal]

I'm personally affected and thus had 2 clients requesting my help to build their "helping" product (please help me with flutter). And a lot of shengians jump on the boat with their app to "help". Often driven by "adhd coaching"-influencers, that want to pump their revenue with an app for a market to solve a problem.

My point is: anything technically applied, that needs another tab / app isn't helping in any way. The journey will only cost money and make you dependend on their product in the meantime.

I get it, that a individual cure hast to be found, but the idea to be helpful in that case with exposure to an app is nonsense.

These things are not the field for experiments, but serious enough to be a medical neurological problem that has to be treated by experts, not victims that can create an app to make money while at it.

[christalwang → hombre_fatal]

Appreciate your thoughts here. The side effects of meds are definitely something to consider, for me specifically it's appetite, poor sleep, sweating, and being less social/funny. Sometimes I also zone in on the wrong thing for too long, when I'm on meds.

[christalwang → reneberlin]

I appreciate you sharing your opinion. I definitely don't view myself as a savior. I had a problem that needed solving, and while I was solving it I met hundreds of other people who had the same problem and wanted to use the coach that I had, and needed to hire more coaches to meet that demand. Even now, our product experiences are built alongside all of our members and community and what everyone wants.

[reneberlin → christalwang]

I'm sorry, but i came across too many shengians in the field. I have overstepped because i was triggered and i apologize. My comment was too harsh and your attitude seems different to what i encountered. I'm deeply sorry it wasn't meant personally to someone who deeply cares. Your intentions are legit and welcome.

As someone personally affected by ADHD, what really is ok for me from time to time is "joining" people that are in "deep flow state" in a NY public library

STUDY WITH ME at NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY | [ LIVE 24/7 ] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1ylZUvXzeo

If the stream is down, there are recordings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgWnLQTwbGU&list=PLHzjftygr0...

People are different and whatever helps should be good enough for me. Again: i'm sorry for my words, that i should have doublechecked and formulated differently before pressing submit.

I wish you and your community a good outcome for every single one! This is a very serious topic for those who suffer.

[echelon → reneberlin]

Ugh, I so vehemently hate vile outspoken opinions like yours. Keep this to yourself. You're damaging the world by speaking this toxicity into the universe and making it worse for the people around you.

These folks are honestly trying to help. What good exactly are you putting into the world? Does it make you feel better about yourself? Stop dunking on people that are working hard and trying to help.

You need to heal whatever damaged part of yourself this comes from. Don't spread it onto other people. From one neurodivergent person to another.

And just so the founders know - this toxic comment is sample size one. Don't let this attitude dissuade you from what you're building. I'm convinced you can do a lot of good for the world with your product and that it can help a lot of people. Keep it up!

[christalwang → echelon]

I really appreciate your comment. You're a great soul! Don't worry, we are very used to it and have done 2 hacker news launches already. The first time I did it I felt so drained and defeated by the end of the day and the 2nd time was a bit better because I expected it. I actually prepped for today over the last few days of grounding myself.

One of the best quotes I heard about prepping for Hacker News is that "You're speaking to the silent majority, not the loud minority" and I try to keep that in mind and just share useful information about what we're building and why we're building it in case someone reads it and finds it helpful!

[reneberlin → echelon]

I'm sorry if i offended your taste, but i really meant it that way. ADHD is nothing to play games with an app for profit. It has to be allowed to critic such behaviour. I don't see any toxic on my comment, it's straight my opinion that that i don't like people profiting from the suffering of others while experimenting with an app. And you should step back to tell other people they "are damaged and have to heal".

I'll leave it like this now.

[sdoering → reneberlin]

Seconded.

[chrsig]

> One problem we discovered while running 1:1 coaching is that people weren’t able to actually follow through (in real life) on the ideas they came up with during their weekly sessions with their coach.

Really?

No, you did not discover this, it's quite predictable.

> since ADHD coaching is not reimbursed in the US, the price is hard for us to bring down because the largest cost component is the coach’s compensation.

Yeah, body doubling doesn't scale. The whole need for another human body thing is a real hurdle, huh?

> we’d love for you to check out coaching & body doubling and give us critical feedback.

Too much text with numbers too big. I already utilize body doubling the analog way, you've told me absolutely nothing about what on earth you're adding to the equation.

[christalwang → chrsig]

> No, you did not discover this, it's quite predictable.

Maybe I should have specified: We discovered this for a subset of our users and wanted to help solve that problem

> Yeah, body doubling doesn't scale. The whole need for another human body thing is a real hurdle, huh?

I'm referring to ADHD coaching that is not reimburseable yet. Though some types of coaching like health & wellness coaching and mental health coaching already are, and weren't in the past. So there is precedent and potential path to reimbursement by health insurance. I didn't mean scaling the human body

> Too much text with numbers too big. I already utilize body doubling the analog way, you've told me absolutely nothing about what on earth you're adding to the equation.

I'm glad analog way works for you! Finding the strategies/methods that work for you is key.

Unfortunately that doesn't work for everyone, especially our members. Many of them want to body double with other ADHD-ers but don't want to tell the people in their life about their ADHD. Others also just want an online hosted space because it's too much effort to organize these themselves and want a consistent, reliable space where they're not the one organizing. A whole bunch of other reasons!

[alis0nlaura]

The potential value in this is immense. You wouldn't experience success from some $40 course. Thank you for making helpful experts and tools accessible!

[christalwang → alis0nlaura]

Yes! ADHD is not a problem of knowing, it's a problem of doing. It's important to find the right support and strategies to actually get things done.

[KomoD → alis0nlaura]

(This person is associated with Shimmer)

[christalwang → KomoD]

Why do you say this? I recognize the name, it's someone in the tech community. But they are not associated with Shimmer

[KomoD → christalwang]

A tweet from them in 2022 says Shimmer partnered with them, you even follow them personally on Twitter (and their company on Instagram) so does Shimmer's Twitter account and both of your companies also follow each other on Instagram and Twitter.

And Shimmer has a blog post that mentions both them and their company as "partners".

I'd definitely call that associated...

[steve_adams_86 → KomoD]

The tweet for anyone interested: https://x.com/ALiS0NLAURA/status/1580958381288091648

[christalwang → steve_adams_86]

That's a social campaign with a discount code swap. We do that with hundreds of organizations, anyone that are mission-driven.

I thought you meant she worked for us or something like that

[steve_adams_86 → christalwang]

No, I didn't comment one way or another. Only referencing the tweet mentioned. I'm aware I'm lacking any context otherwise.

[christalwang → steve_adams_86]

True, good points! I may have misinterpreted the intent of op's comment