Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

These two were jailed for posts. Others were jailed for your quote above. That quote above is not about these two. So they sent these guys in for online threats and taunts. If we took that approach in the US, 1/10 of twitter/X would be in jail. or at least a large portion of students on either side of the middle eastern conflict.



This was a clear-cut case of inciting imminent lawless action (setting fire to hotels), not just online taunts. It would be just as illegal in the US.


If this was the totality of the tweets: https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/crime/northampton-ma... then I think that would be protected speech in the US. There is no specific incitement or threat. In fact the first tweet seems to be along the line of: "if you did criminal act X then I would not care". There is also a reference to another tweet where it is claimed he says it was 100% the plan. Maybe this along with the original tweet would be a problem but its very difficult to make a judgement without seeing all the tweets. But there is a reason why the US has a very high hurdle for incitement because a lot of political speech which should not be considered incitement could be by a bad faith interpreter. For example people were making tweets saying 'Biden should order Seal team 6 to kill Trump'. If you applied your same logic purely on incitement grounds then surely these people should be criminally convicted as well. However, in this particular UK case the conviction doesn't seem to be based on incitement to a crime but rather inciting racial hatred was a component. I think in US law you might get tougher penalties for inciting criminal actions that involve racial hatred but it's not a crime in itself. The CPS seem to be claiming he was found guilty of "publishing material intending to stir up racial hatred".


> people were making tweets saying 'Biden should order Seal team 6 to kill Trump'

Such tweets were not "likely" to produce imminent lawless action, or even plausibly intended to do so. That's ultimately why they're regarded as protected speech. The case of someone inciting people to set hotels on fire in an ongoing riot is going to be quite different.


The criteria in the US is: "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action"[1]

It seems clear that the posts would be unlawful even in the US.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio


I think you'd have trouble prosecuting this in the US. Lots of people say awful things on X/Twitter. Mostly they are outbursts, or seeking some form of social credit. Just look at what people say about political candidates in the US. If you say something totally outrageous toward a political candidate, you may get a visit from the SS, but rarely, rarely, unless they have materiel or other immediate intent are they prosecuted/jailed. IIRC, Greenday, a few days after an attempted assassination on a presidential candidate held out a mask acting as a severed head. Previous to that we had comedians with severed heads of prominent politicians.

I think we're pretty liberal about these things in the US.

Remember the BLM riots where they set fire to automobiles and government buildings, etc? Those were actual acts of violence but few were jailed.


> Lots of people say awful things on X/Twitter.

The standard in the U.S. is not just saying something "awful" or "outrageous" in some vague and subjective sense, it's issuing a true threat or incitement of imminent lawless action. Ultimately that's going to be quite rare in the U.S. - perhaps precisely because other sorts of rude "outbursts" are legally okay, and because Twitter/X will issue bans for threatening or inciting violence. In the UK, the line is a lot less clear than that and people have been heavily sanctioned even for merely "offensive" online speech.


Good point, I'll change that comment.




Consider applying for YC's W25 batch! Applications are open till Nov 12.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: