I personally lack confidence in higher education because I'm neurodivergent, and high school pushed a method of learning that is not compatible with the way in which my brain works. They demanded I learn things in advance rather than as-needed, which is not how I operate - it is the source of the "how will this ever be useful later in life?" that is oft-cited of students.
I am extremely resourceful when given access to a search engine, but I cannot read an entire textbook and then recall specific information from it. I only retain information that is actually relevant to my task and I can't decide relevance after the fact. They don't understand this and don't accommodate for this, so I had to drop out.
I have no reason to believe that college is different. Even if it were, I don't feel that I need it! To graduate high school would've been nice, but it's not really worth it for me now. Real high-paying jobs do not care about the presence or absence of a high-school diploma if you can prove it doesn't matter. At least in software development, programming/engineering skill usually speaks for itself.
I have to wonder if others are realizing this about themselves, too, or at the very least feeling it. Certain people, I'm sure, would be able to tell if, in general, learning and information-gathering is quite easy for them, while school is hard for no good reason. The internet is a wonderful thing; sure social media is terrible, but just in general we're all now quite spoiled and it's obvious that we could have it much better than school.
I think most people learn the same way you describe. But people who are good at school are good at modeling school so that it looks like what you describe. And they go on and do the same thing with work.
I think if you do that it all becomes much easier. Interestingly I think this impacts people in their careers more than school even. People fight against so much stuff in their careers rather than seeing the more straightforward path toward their own success.
"But people who are good at school are good at modeling school so that it looks like what you describe. And they go on and do the same thing with work."
...And many go on to become teachers and textbook writers thus perpetuating the problem for students who absorb information differently to the way they do.
We need multiple approaches to teaching, unfortunately they're not seen as conducive with efficiency, minimizing syllabus material, keeping teachers' numbers to a minimum, etc. (See my comment to the same post.)
"They They demanded I learn things in advance rather than as-needed, which is not how I operate..."
I think this is true with many people, myself included with some subjects (or certain topics within subjects).
That said, with some topics I found the subject matter sufficiently stimulating in and of itself to hold my complete interest and attention. For example, I immediately grasped the fundamentals of calculus and understood why it is so important.
I cannot say the same about linear algebra and matrices which I was taught before knowing why they are so important in physics and elsewhere. Frankly, back then I found it to be boring, tedious stuff. Now I'm aware of its proper context and use my attitude towards the subject has reversed completely.
Same when it came to thermodynamics and statistical mechanics in physics, they were a bore and a pain (I was much more interested in electrodynamics and such). Similarly, my attitude to thermodynamics has changed completely, I'd now argue that thermodynamics is one of the most important (and fundamental) parts of physics. Had I been taught why thermodynamics is so important and given interesting instances I'm sure my attitude would have been very different.
Also, I was never much good at learning foreign languages, I recall whilst still at school doing my homework. I'd lie on my bed and bash my head against my French textbook whingeing to myself and asking why the hell am I learning this damned stuff. That attitude changed completely when I went to live in a foreign country where I didn't speak the language.
In some ways I've envied those students in my class who could suck up information like a sponge and regurgitate it verbatim during examinations. That said, I had no trouble equalling and often bettering them in topics that held my intersest. More to the fact my fundamental understanding of the subject was often much stronger.
You're right, teaching subject matter to students that's seemingly irrelevant for them at the time it's taught, is, in my opinion not only counterproductive and often a waste of time but also it's likely to turn potentially good students away from the subject altogether.
From my experience, when teaching a subject including context and relevance is just about as important as the subject matter itself. The trouble is that the people who set the syllabuses and write textbooks are so often the very same people who were good at regurgitating stuff verbatim in exams. They become teachers because of said skill and they never fully understand that many students simply don't learn in the same way that they do.
> In some ways I've envied those students in my class who could suck up information like a sponge and regurgitate it verbatim during examinations. That said, I had no trouble equalling and often bettering them in topics that held my intersest. More to the fact my fundamental understanding of the subject was often much stronger.
Anecdote: It was difficult for me to learn algebra at first because things like the phrase "plug it in" (wrt variables) were never defined, only demonstrated. They expected students to simply infer by watching and following along. But once I finally figured out the fundamentals, I could use them to engineer my own solutions that rivaled what they wanted to teach me, and at that point I instantly got bored with most of the lessons (and went from hating math to loving it). At points they had to ban me from using calculators, mandate me showing all work, etc. because they realized I was being far more efficient than they wanted. That's when I really got upset about it.
See, the mistake they made is assuming that I didn't need a fundamental understanding in order to simply regurgitate the subject material. They expected me to learn purely by example and then work purely based on their algorithm. They did not expect me to require complete base knowledge, and once I had that knowledge they did not expect me to use it to engineer my own solutions. That was their second mistake; assuming that I would learn and apply only what they were trying to teach me.
My personal hypothesis is that school wasn't designed with autistics in mind. Learning by following along without explanation is traditionally a neurotypical thing. Autistics often learn based on rules and in fact don't always benefit from merely following along if they can't infer the actual reason behind something. I'm sure a lack of attention to this detail is a huge reason why autistics are often viewed as having "special" needs rather than simply different ones.
"See, the mistake they made is assuming that I didn't need a fundamental understanding in order to simply regurgitate the subject material"
Right. I don't consider myself expert in how people learn stuff or acquire knowledge but speaking for myself I'll almost certainly remember it if I understand it.
A slight qualification though, there are many 'minor' facts that I've understood at the time but have eventually forgotten or I've only partially remembered them. This is especially so if I hold little interest in the subject. (It's known the mind clears dross out if it isn't reinforced or used.)
What I'm talking about are key concepts or processes in a subject that one is expected to know and retain. For me, I'll much better understand a topic if it's taught in context (why we should learn it) and or if it's of interest to me.
Here's another example from math: at school I recall learning parametric equations and I quickly caught on and understood them because I'd come to the conclusion that they are a really neat and cleaver way of solving stuff that would otherwise be difficult. Here, the learning reinforcement was of my own doing—not because the teacher has stressed this part of the syllabus more than any other part. The info stuck immediately because I could visualize how useful they were.
> What I'm talking about are key concepts or processes in a subject that one is expected to know and retain. For me, I'll much better understand a topic if it's taught in context (why we should learn it) and or if it's of interest to me.
Absolutely. I agree, and I think this is also the case for myself. Context is very important to me, and it sucks that it's often completely left out. Often, when I ask "why?", I'm treated as if I'm completely refusing the subject.
People act this way outside of school, too (for example, I'm often treated this way at work), so I think it's just a neurotypical thing that I'm expected to do what I'm told without question, even if the question is curiosity / confusion.
I am extremely resourceful when given access to a search engine, but I cannot read an entire textbook and then recall specific information from it. I only retain information that is actually relevant to my task and I can't decide relevance after the fact. They don't understand this and don't accommodate for this, so I had to drop out.
I have no reason to believe that college is different. Even if it were, I don't feel that I need it! To graduate high school would've been nice, but it's not really worth it for me now. Real high-paying jobs do not care about the presence or absence of a high-school diploma if you can prove it doesn't matter. At least in software development, programming/engineering skill usually speaks for itself.
I have to wonder if others are realizing this about themselves, too, or at the very least feeling it. Certain people, I'm sure, would be able to tell if, in general, learning and information-gathering is quite easy for them, while school is hard for no good reason. The internet is a wonderful thing; sure social media is terrible, but just in general we're all now quite spoiled and it's obvious that we could have it much better than school.