Is Kenya the new Poland for offshore IT?

[tomgs]

I own a small consultancy that specializes in technical product marketing[0] - I hire engineers to research topics, and write sales collateral and other fun stuff for companies based on the research.

While I was interviewing, I was super impressed by Polish talent - many, many, many smart individuals who are not set in their programming ways and are looking to explore other avenues of using their skills. Hired one, he's legit amazing, and I keep wanting to bring more as the business grows.

I also talked to another consultant friend who had the exact same experience, but with a man from Kenya. He said that the combination of great schools and terrific English (I'll admit it caught me by surprise), high tenacity, and what appears to be a very big appetite for learning technology created this huge population of very technical folks that are not finding work in-country.

Was that anyone's else experience too? It filled my heart with joy to learn that a kid from Kenya can now make a (high)five-figure salary (in USD, where the average salary is like $400) as an engineer for a company in the states, working completely remotely.

What a world.

[0] https://granot.io - leads to my LinkedIn page, if anyone wants to connect and talk further. I'd love to meet engineers considering the move to marketing / sales - it's a less-beaten path, but a very good one (from personal experience).

EDIT to clarify, now that I realize what I wrote: not for hiring, just to shoot the shit and tell my tale.

[999900000999]

Being able to earn 80k in a moderate incoming country might be a better deal that earning 200k in the US.

I imagine with frugal living you could retire at 40

[Detrytus → 999900000999]

In the US 200k is what you need to achieve the standard of living of an average German citizen on welfare. /s

[hdhshdhshdjd → Detrytus]

As somebody who has lived both places that’s not far off.

[999900000999 → hdhshdhshdjd]

The problem with America is you can fall off really quickly. I've had really good years. Then you get fired, you don't have health insurance since for some God forsaken reason we tie health-care to employment.

Unexpected medical bills pop up. You're out tens of thousands overnight. Maybe you miss a mortgage payment since unemployment insurance is next to nothing.

[hdhshdhshdjd → 999900000999]

That used to be true now it’s worse. My hospital system and health insurer play chicken every 12-24 months. I’ll get letters saying I can’t see my doctor anymore, then they go up until some midnight deadline, make a deal, and I get an email saying I can still go to the doctor.

Sometimes it doesn’t work out through! You could have the same job, health insurance, and doctor for a decade - and ooops! The next day you have to drive an hour away to see some new doctor you never met before who isn’t as good as your doctor.

And that all comes down to this financial gamesmanship between hospitals and insurers. It’s nuts, literally the dumbest combination of petty greed and literal life altering decisions possible.

[BrandoElFollito]

I worked extensively with India (Pune, Bangalore, Hyderabad), Poland (Krakow) and Kenya (Mombasa, Kisumu).

You can find good people everywhere but due to education (real, useful education - in my case IT and dev) there are real differences in the average competency. Poland is by far the best.

And then there is culture, especially communication culture that is hugely different between these countries. I am French so the easiest was Poland.

When you go to Krakow you are for a treat as well - but Kenya and India are fantastic as well (just way bigger)

[eejermaine]

Have you considered Malaysia? approx the same cost of living as Poland and they grew up speaking English. Timezone is a bit trickier but asian work culture is solid.

[realPubkey]

Same experience for me but with west africa.

[bilbo0s → realPubkey]

I've found Ghana to be the only country in West Africa where you can reliably outsource and get quality work back with no headaches. Maybe if I did business in French, Senegal would be reliable as well. But the rest of West Africa has a long way to go even getting reliable rule of law. (Which is weird, because you would think Nigeria would have its act together.)

But yes, Kenya is the star out in East Africa. Even among a lot of other scrappy nations in the EAC, Kenya stands out. No question.

For African outsourcing, I can't recommend Ghana and Kenya enough. Only problem right now is that, you kind of have to know someone to get access to the really good guys. Demand is high relative to the guys available with known track records.

[tomgs → bilbo0s]

Very cool, thanks for sharing! I have writing work on the side for engineers, if you know any. Great way to get your writing skills going while getting paid to play with tech.