Nice. That's the business Chevrolet is supposed to be in. "Basic transportation", their ads once read. The push for "more crap per car" and higher margins has gotten completely out of hand.[1] Detroit is abandoning the rest of the world to China and hiding behind US tariffs.
If it were were not for the new 100% tariff on Chinese electric cars, we'd have $25,000 electrics from BYD and Nio in the US now. Like the rest of the world.
Indeed. Here in Germany EVs are taking a beating and it seems that the political right wants to spin that as a wholesale rejection of the whole concept.
Whereas the reality is that the country’s proud megabrand (VW) has launched a ridiculous line of overpriced glitchfest EVs with unwanted faux-apple styling, then had a public meltdown about how no one wants to buy EVs.
Give me a reasonably priced and reasonably featured EV Caddy workhorse and I will buy one along with half this country.
It's annoying that most cars today start in the 40's, what happened to basic budget cars? Personally, I just want a reliable and safe car, not a flashy one, and given the CA mortgage I carry, I have no interest in indulging in frivolous expenditures.
I bought a brand new Mazda CX-5 last year for 29K - and not the most basic model. Very reliable and safe. Given our safety requirements nowadays (cameras, crash resistance, air bags), and technology expectations (CarPlay/Android Auto, Bluetooth, USB chargers), it will be hard to make a car for a lot less than that while remaining appealing for the average buyer.
Some people would be fine with a tiny barebones car, but that's a minority. I used to have one of these when living abroad and let tell you... It SUCKED. Uncomfortable and was not safe when compared even with a small sedan like the Jetta.
If I had a guess? A lot of people asking, "Why buy a new cheap car when you can spend the same money on one that's off a 2 year lease that is much nicer equipped?"
This. U.S. car market is saturated. Everyone has a car. There is no way to (sustainably, over a period comparable to a car's lifetime) sell more cars. So only way to increase revenue is to sell more expensive cars.
This is also why homes keep getting bigger. There is no way to sell (many) more homes, so to make more, bigger ones have to be built.
More like $30K-$45 EVs from BYD. When you see the dollar price in China, double that to get the German or Australian prices and you could expect to pay at least that much in the US if BYD builds cars in the US or Mexico where labor and transportation prices will hike the price even further.
Another way to think about this is BYD will undercut Tesla by 10% to win market. If a Tesla is $40K, the BYD might be $36K. It will not be $25K because that would cost BYD $11K they didn't have to sacrifice to win the sale.
It's not competition when it's not a level playing field.
European and American manufacturers don't get equal access to the Chinese market. Almost all of them have had to enter into partnerships with local Chinese companies with technology transfer agreements to get access to China.
China has subsidized its domestic car industry with cheap loans, cheap land, and direct subsidies for the last decade. What the tariffs do is balance the Chinese government's support of its local car industry:
I mean, Detroit ceded “basic transportation” to the Japanese decades ago, because they suck at making it compared to Toyota and Honda. Comparative advantage is the only thing saving them.
Hopefully VinFast will start to introduce lower priced models sooner than later as they gain traction in the United States with their electric vehicles. Perhaps the tariff is to protect VinFast also and therefore US interests in Vietnam.
Vinfast has a kind of bleh reputation in VN as well (most Vinfast EVs I'd see in VN are bought by a taxi company that I think might be owned by VinGroup as well), and most US interests in VN use a Korean or Japanese proxy (like how they used to do it in China 20-30 years ago)
> Perhaps the tariff is to protect VinFast also and therefore US interests in Vietnam
With To Lam as President now, I wouldn't be too hopeful. His rise right now is very similar to Xi's a decade ago.
He'll most likely leverage China to consolidate power, especially because a lot of the US detente was done by his rival's faction a decade ago.
Depends on how important the SCS issue is (US and Vietnam's Armed Forces have been very aligned on against China) versus authoritarian consolidation of power (China and factions of the VCP and MPS are aligned as they don't want a "Color Revolution"-lite like in Korea in the 1980s, Thailand in the 1990s, and CEE in the 90s-2000s. Also much of VN's leadership studied in Czecholovakia during the collapse of the Eastern Bloc).
Unlike Xi who started his career in the PLA under Geng Biao and had a shot at leadership track within it in the 1980s, the VN Military doesn't really like To Lam and the MPS in general.
I was reprimanded for calling Saigon Ho Chi Minh City and later for calling Ho Chi Minh City Saigon. I don't want to be involved with politics. Nonetheless, what I saw in Vietnam which suffers from severe air pollution especially from vehicle exhaust -- the worst being in Hanoi -- is the adoption of electric vehicles manufactured by VinFast.
> I was reprimanded for calling Saigon Ho Chi Minh City and later for calling Ho Chi Minh City Saigon
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
If someone has lived in the north for several years, call it HCMC. If someone has lived in the south for several years, call it Saigon.
If you're in Hanoi or Haiphong, call it HCMC.
If you're in HCMC/Saigon, call it Saigon.
That said, most VNese in VN don't care.
> I don't want to be involved with politics
Most people don't. It's stressful and outside our hands.
> Vietnam which suffers from severe air pollution especially from vehicle exhaust -- the worst being in Hanoi -- is the adoption of electric vehicles manufactured by VinFast
A lot of the pollution around Hanoi+Red River Delta is because of coal power plants and the fact that it's surrounded by mountains trapping all the smog (sort of like Milan and Los Angeles)
There might be more adoption in Hanoi (wouldn't be surprised as VinGroup is from there and PSU employment is much more prominent there) but at least in Saigon/HCMC and a couple other southern+central cities, they weren't as prominent.
Most people had motorbikes and those with cars were largely driving Korean+Japanese brands (Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Hyundai)
I've thought for a while that the US-Vietnam rapprochement versus China would result in the US Navy returning to Cam Ranh Bay. Does that seem less likely now?
> would result in the US Navy returning to Cam Ranh Bay
I don't think that was ever on the table. Giving any country a base in VN would drastically affect it's tightrope of neutrality.
For example, they have strategic partnerships with US, China, Russia, Sourh Korea, Japan, and India in order to balance relations and maintain neutrality
One thing I'm scared is if Trump becomes president, because a lot of people in his orbit who potentially will become SecState aren't as publicly tactful as it is a quick political win, and might force VN to choose between neutrality or a side.
If VN is pushed to make a choice, they most likely will choose China just like Thailand+Malaysia did because no one wants a war over the SCS.
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The Armed Forces are pro-US, as much of the leadership started their career in the Sino-Vietnamese and Vietnam-Cambodia wars from 1979-1991, and the VN Navy has had multiple confrontations with China in the 2010-2017 period similar to those PH is facing today.
The MPS and Nguyen Phu Trong's faction (I call them the Northern faction because of Nguyen and his acolytes starting their career in North VN during the war to 1990s) are much more authoritarian, and more open to leaning towards China due to business and party relations as a lot of FDI in Northern VN came from China. The new president is from this faction.
The currently purged faction (who I call the Southern faction because Nguyen Xuan Phuc and Truong Dan Sang plus their acolytes started their careers in Southern VN in the 1990s). They are also authoritarian, but more business facing and more open to Western relations as much of Southern VN's FDI came from Korean and Japanese companies. VN was largely ruled by this faction throughout the late 2000s-early 2020s when COVID corruption scandals came front and center. Hoa/Chinese Vietnamese are fairly prominent in this faction as they tend to be prominent in business.
For now, VN appears to prefer neutrality and not having to choose between a side, but if push comes to shove, they will make the choice that will prevent a localized war due to leadership's memories of the 1940s-1990s.
I happen to be in the market for a cheap commuter after I realized I spent upwards of $400 per month on my used ICE vehicle. I'm trying to choose between an older $6000 used Chevy Spark, which would probably save me $350 a month, or a 2021/22 Bolt The silly Chevy 2024 pause on the Bolt means there aren't new ones really available for sale and the new car IRA rebate. I was even considering a late model Volt, which is just a great car, and a shame that it was cut.
5 years ago after they cancelled the Volt, the Equinox with a hybrid voltec system would have been a massive hit. Perhaps they didn't want a hit because of the margins.
At this point after seeing them backtrack on great cars like the volt and bolt, and what happened to the Blazer EV that was promised??
Call me skeptical, on this.
They really fumbled their Voltec platform, and not having a smooth transition from BEV2 to Ultium is kinda annoying, but Ultium seems like a solid architecture with several vehicles built on it and either shipping or close to shipping (and not just GM vehicles!).
That's their MO. Release something rough around the edges, cancel it when they refine it and/or it gains traction. Don't forget the EV1, Fiero, Corvair, the Australian GTO/G8/SS/Caprice, the entire Saturn division, etc., etc.
They bailed on the American Caprice and ceded the market for big ass cop cars to Ford. LAPD liked theirs so much they refurbished them at least once instead of going with new Crown Vics.
We're kinda splitting hairs here. The significance, to me, is that the bolt does not have a very compelling drag coefficient compared to e.g. the Tesla M3 or the Ioniq 6.
Wtf are you talking about? I said budget sedan. Bolt is not a sedan. It doesn't compete with vehicles like the Tesla Model 3 and Hyundai Ioniq 6, which have much lower drag coefficients and consequently significantly longer range despite comparable battery sizes.
I love my Bolt, but it's not a sedan. That said, it's not terribly surprising GM is not interested in making an electric sedan given that it's been declining in popularity over time. Ford isn't even making any sedans at all apart from the Mustang.
It's too bad the 2023 Bolts are for the most part unavailable new, even though the used 2023 bolts have super low miles, and thus not qualified for the IRA rebate.
Yes, I know. We’re talking about EV sedans. Hyundai has one, and it’s a great car, but it’s not exactly their volume seller. I don’t know that Polstar considers the 2 a sedan.
They shipped almost 2000 in one month. I don't know what kind of volume you're looking for for a 40k+ car in an economy filled with price sensitive consumers, but they are definitely selling more Ioniq 6s than GM is selling Blazer EVs.
Excellent news. US auto can clearly build EV's, what is required is to do so for the mass market, rather than the luxury segment which is Tesla's core audience. Biden's adoption of the Great Wall of Tariffs will help protect the likes of GM further, so that they can continue to iterate and produce better, more affordable vehicles for the American consumer
Tariffs help to fight the government-subsidized Chinese EVs. Prices of which are only low because the Chinese taxpayer is paying for the difference between the real price to produce and the sales price.
Without tariffs China can destroy every single US industry, one at a time, by flooding the marked with subsidized products.
You are confused. US and California subsides for EVs (cars and factories and tariffs) far outpaces China's. Tesla has received 3-5 times what BYD has in subsidies for example, so maybe take this tired ass bullshit claim of China subsidies being somehow out of the norm here to some forum with people who can't read good and you might get away with it.
this is true, but it will provide US auto manufacturers protection from external competition, so increase the chances they will finally address the mainstream domestic market with lower cost - and lower margin - offerings. Tariff walls are standard practice to nurture currently weak domestic industries
If it were were not for the new 100% tariff on Chinese electric cars, we'd have $25,000 electrics from BYD and Nio in the US now. Like the rest of the world.
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/05/18/china-us-...