I've had FSD for years, and, well, it is awful. I keep hoping it gets better, but it doesn't.
The best way I have to describe it is: Picture a timid new driver, then give them 10 cups of coffee and make them really nervous. Now make them adhere slavishly to a random assortment of rules, and not at all to others.
One of my biggest pet peeves is that my car will try really hard to stay on the right side of a narrow residential road, coming inches from parked cars when there is no oncoming traffic. I always takeover, because I just know somebody is going to open a door into me, or an animal or child will dart out from between cars.
It will often hesitate to merge or turn left, even when given ample opportunity. And then it will suddenly dart across traffic with no warning.
I bought it in 2017 with the car, and drove like a grandma for a month to be eligible for the initial FSD beta a year or two ago. It was a complete waste of time and money. My hope when buying it was that I could have my car drop off my then 11yo son at school and save me a commute. My son is now 18 and drives far better than the car ever will.
I have a friend who bought an X for $120k when it came out and recently sold it for $35k. So much for Elon’s promises of the cars increasing in value because “robotaxi”.
Yea the cult of personality (crumbled now but was more a thing 5-10 years back) resulted in a lot of people falling for marking FUD which sucks.
I've been in software dev way too long to buy that nonsense. As far as my expectations have been it's actually ahead of schedule. That kind of pessimism keeps me constantly happy with the rate of improvement. Lovely psychological trick I've played on myself.
> I could have my car drop off my then 11yo son at school and save me a commute. My son is now 18 and drives far better than the car ever will.
I completely forgot that stuff like this was supposed to be a huge new thing years ago. Sending your car to be a taxi while you're at work to bring in more income, picking people up..
> My hope when buying it was that I could have my car drop off my then 11yo son at school and save me a commute.
I’m always slightly amazed that people bought this. Like, everyone who worked in the space was saying “yeah, no” at the time, as far as I remember; it was really just the techno-optimists claiming this stuff.
I'm pretty surprised that there hasn't been some large-scale class action against Tesla, given Musk and his baseless FSD claims. I mean, it's kind of become a meme at this point: it was "2 years away" in 2017, it was "one year away" in 2019, it was "coming very soon" in 2022. And he literally said (on the investor calls) that full self driving was "coming later this year" literally in 2023 and just like last month in 2024.
Like, wtf? How is making these claims as an Officer of a public company remotely legal?
> It seems one of the potential stumbling blocks is mandatory arbitration unless you thought to opt-out very early.
It's actually so wild that the judge upheld arbitration[1]. I guess he's technically correct that it doesn't "waive a plaintiff's right to seek public injunctive relief" but it definitely makes it way more annoying.
It's not wild, it's the requirement of the statute: if an agreement says an issue goes to arbitration, the courts are required to send it to arbitration; there's no discretion allowed.
There's a bill before Congress that would make arbitration agreements unenforceable in class-action, employment, civil rights, and antitrust disputes, but it hasn't gone anywhere despite being introduced in the last 4 Congresses.
> It's not wild, it's the requirement of the statute: if an agreement says an issue goes to arbitration, the courts are required to send it to arbitration; there's no discretion allowed.
I'm not a lawyer, but there seems to definitely be some discretion allowed. In fact, the McGill rule is often cited as being a litmus test[1]. Honestly, in the Tesla case, and why I said it's wild, is because Tesla is still selling cars touting full self driving[2]. The injunction here would presumably bar Tesla from selling (or at least advertising) FSD in the interest of public good. In other words, I think the judge got it wrong.
Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I might be misunderstanding something, but that's my take.
That's an SEC investigation and not a class action lawsuit. The latter usually tends to be much more punishing (specifically, where the class is the people that literally paid for FSD/Autopilot). The SEC will fine TSLA like $2M if anything at all (big whoop, and I doubt the criminal investigation will go anywhere).
> May 8 (Reuters) - U.S. prosecutors are examining whether Tesla (TSLA.O), opens new tab committed securities or wire fraud by misleading investors and consumers about its electric vehicles’ self-driving capabilities, three people familiar with the matter told Reuters.
And considering the share price has dropped and considering “Everything is Securities Fraud”* I am also baffled at the lack of completed or slow action.
Sometimes I think trying to drive with car sensors (cam, radar etc) instead of looking outside might be of help to develop less ugly self driving solutions...
My experience wasn't too different until v12. Until then the main value add was long trips on highways; it did a good job of keeping me from drifting lanes due to attention lapses and was good at dynamically adapting to highway traffic. As soon as conditions were sub-optimal though it was... bad. I live in a rural area which is obviously not it's happy path. It didn't know what to do with roads without a center lane marking. It didn't know how to handle a roundabout. It didn't know what to do with market areas where streets broaden (kept trying to lunge into a perceived non-existent right lane.
The last couple months have been much better. It's STILL not perfect (and it's pretty much imperative to simply ignore anything that Musk optimistically tosses out regarding capability) but it's a remarkable improvement.
It'll drive me from my home to my co-working space with the only intervention by me being to click a parking spot. The automated parallel parking actually works well now too.
My guess is we are 5-10 years out from it being a truly automatic experience in every way, but it's pretty good now. It's also nice that my car keeps improving (quicker lately) rather than being stuck with whatever nonsense it was deployed with.
I haven't, because even though I paid for FSD back in 2016, it is STILL not enabled on my car. About 18 months ago I finally got allowed into the beta for around 3 months, but then it went in for service (doing the storage device replacement), and everything got reset including the ability to use FSD, so I'm back on the beta list and have been for a year. I submitted a support request for it maybe a year ago, but it got deleted with no response.
While it was enabled, I'll say it was terrible at things like driving in the city, but it was actually pretty good at interstate driving.
Forget interest, I'm thinking convert it to stock at the price I'd have paid back in 2016, because basically they've used it as an investment. Seems fair.
Yes, I have and it's better but only marginally. I like my Tesla, of the EV's available, it was the winner. The sales model coupled with the route planning with RELIABLE charging stops sealed the deal, and other legacy car manufacturers are just so clueless when it comes to both.
But look, FSD is smoke and mirrors. v12 is marginally better, yes, but it still acts horribly. It can't merge well. It's jerky. Last night it tried to drive in a breakdown lane. It often misses on-ramps for highways around here.
Man, the auto wipers don't even work. That makes me the angriest - what would they pay for a rain sensor? Jeez.
Vision only may work with better cameras but seriously Elon put Ali Express $0.20 cameras in this thing.
Nobody seems to be talking about the fact that the AI behind self-driving is trained on real driver behavior...but real drivers are pretty terrible! The fact that your car hugs the right side of the road is because that's what real drivers do. And turning left?! OMG, how many times do you sit behind someone turning left at a traffic light, and they wait behind the white line for a break in traffic? This makes the turn as long and dangerous as possible. Sigh.
The best way I have to describe it is: Picture a timid new driver, then give them 10 cups of coffee and make them really nervous. Now make them adhere slavishly to a random assortment of rules, and not at all to others.
One of my biggest pet peeves is that my car will try really hard to stay on the right side of a narrow residential road, coming inches from parked cars when there is no oncoming traffic. I always takeover, because I just know somebody is going to open a door into me, or an animal or child will dart out from between cars.
It will often hesitate to merge or turn left, even when given ample opportunity. And then it will suddenly dart across traffic with no warning.
I bought it in 2017 with the car, and drove like a grandma for a month to be eligible for the initial FSD beta a year or two ago. It was a complete waste of time and money. My hope when buying it was that I could have my car drop off my then 11yo son at school and save me a commute. My son is now 18 and drives far better than the car ever will.