The question is what will consumers be ditching Hertz for? Electric cars as an economical proposition have already proved themselves. That debate is pretty much over. So, why can't Hertz make it work? And who else can disrupt them and how quickly?
This comment feels so disconnected from reality that I can only imagine you possibly live in a bubble of EV owners. To offer my anecdotal observation, where I live, I rarely ever see an EV. Maybe a single one on the road per day, if that. Various dealerships have told me everyone getting one around the area recently has been returning them.
While on a time limited event, like a vacation, where I may need a rental car, I have no desire to sit and wait for my car to charge and waste my time, over a 45 second gas fill up. Hotels don’t universally offer charging ports (or enough of them, if it even does). EVs have a very long way to go to being generally useful for the non homeowner who doesn’t have a charging station in their own garage.
> To offer my anecdotal observation, where I live, I rarely ever see an EV.
Where do you live? I live in a regular German town, nothing I would consider particular techie, and I see so many electric cars. If you only see one ev per day, I think that you might live more in a bubble than OP.
One is certainly underestimating. I only mean some insignificant number of vehicles. Far from the “proven” statement about people vying for EV rentals in the OP comment. I realize now that I shouldn’t have put an explicit number on an internet comment, as now that number is the target to come after me for.
i mean urban geographies are for the most part a bubble.
I could see even in different parts of the US wildly different EV adoption rates. They're very common in Seattle but I think I would be surprised if I saw too many of them in Boise. US states are often the size of European countries.
They’re pretty common in the Bay Area but, anecdotally while they’re becoming more common in the Boston suburbs they’re still a fairly unusual sighting other than at a charging station next to a supermarket I shop—which typically has 1-2 cars at it.
There's not much point grumbling about an anecdote and supplying another.
The EU as a whole has 1.68% EVs out of all passenger cars, though it's about 15% of new cars. [1]
Here in Denmark BEVs are 5.68% of all passenger cars, and I'm sure it's higher where I live in Copenhagen. Over half of the taxis and buses are EVs, plus a good proportion of private vehicle. I won't guess, but I do see many EVs every time I go outside.
Agreed, just was too lazy for research and the OP EV praise was eye-roll inducing, so I just quickly offered an alternative perspective. Thanks for the actual numbers!
What makes sense at an individual level doesn't necessarily makes sense at that scale.
The only time I rent cars is for long trips, I'm about to rent one next month actually, 1200km, no chance I'll get an EV that at most will give me 400km of range
The fact that anything above a fender bender is almost always a total write off probably doest help either
Vehicle rental periods are inherently time constrained. If you’re on a business trip or vacation the last thing you want to be doing is waiting for your vehicle to charge. And, you inherently also often do not have access to private charging infrastructure which means you actively have to go out of your way to find a safe and reliable charger. And you have to do this in a strange place that you don’t know. Home charging is the critical factor that makes life with an EV appealing.
Vacations are so time constrained that a huge % of ICE renters opt to just get hosed on gas up fees that rental companies charge instead of going to any ubiquitous gas station before dropping the car off. Car drop off with a flight to catch is always a race against time.
EVs are pricey versus comparably equipped cars, and this is reflected in the rates. (I rented two cars on Turo, a 4-cylinder ICE and an EV, and the ICE had a better ROI)
Owning an EV requires some compromises, but you figure it out: you get a charger for home, you learn where the chargers are and what the waits are like, etc. For a traveler renting a car, this is bigger challenge. (I say this being a two-EV household)
As a regular Hertz customer, I will still use Hertz. They are mostly zero hassle, even that time I destroyed a Fiat 500 :)
I never rented an EV from them and never would because the charging logistics are a pain in the ass at return. Out of petrol? 10 minutes, run it through the car wash at the same time, sorted. Out of charge? Oh I'm right next to one of the biggest airports in Europe and all the chargers are rammed. No thanks.
Do Europeans really return their rental cars washed? The only time I've ever washed a rental car in the US was when I drove it off paved roads in violation of the terms of the rental agreement and needed to hide the evidence.
I’ve never ever washed then though I probably risked a cleaning fee. I’ve returned some very (externally) dirty cars that were in a bunch of forest roads though mostly not really off-road.
What happens when you return it with a lower charge than when you got it? Don’t you just have to pay the difference? Is that more expensive than charging it yourself?
I have an EV, no gas car and I'm super happy about that.
And yet when I needed to rent a car, I rented a gasoline one.
Why?
Because car rental is pretty much the worst case for an EV.
If I rent a car I'm likely abroad, with zero knowledge of the recharge network and often not great options in terms of costs because most are national (at least, here in Europe, only notable exception being Ionity).
I'm also likely to drive long distances, with no routine, and little planning capacity.
And whatever other reason one would pick an EV for (noise, pollution, fuel cost, one pedal drive comfort etc.) they are all negligible when applied to a 2 weeks vacation.
Isn’t this specifically a case of Hertz having estimated the economical proposition as proven and positive, and now having to fix that miscalculation as the actual economic results have rolled in?
It may be over for you, but for most people it isn't. I won't pay the price of new car, any car, ever, even if I can afford it easily. Its just silly when I can pay 20% of premium BMW with say 90k km and use it for another 10 years or 150k km, with very few repairs needed (granted, this depends on the model but knock on the wood this worked for 15 years so far). Used electric cars comfortable for a family of 4, with bigger trunk, can drive at least 800km fully loaded in winter in 1 go without ever thinking about battery state, or chargers network? Please show me one and its price.
Its often the second biggest investment in one's life, after housing. But unlike housing you just throw money at it, expecting pure massive loss, while gaining service. Service new car offers is 100% of used one which is well maintained, minus all potential initial recalls. Its even better for peace of mind - small dents and damage on new car hurts mentally so one becomes a slave to freakin' piece of plastic and metal, on older one its meh category and I focus on important parts being in good state and high quality wheels connecting me to Earth, while driving much more premium equipped cars than comparable electric ones (granted, ie Porsche is better but at what crazy price).
What electric cars bring within same requirements is 2-4x more expensive just to purchase, and TCO are stratospheric for what I am willing to accept.
Another point is environmental impact on all that battery chemistry destroying ecosystems of some poor countries electric drivers often never even heard of nor visited, it ain't greener car to manufacture by any means, albeit greener to run for sure.
So there you have it, the reason 80% of ICE driver's reasons to stay where they are, at least for another decade or two. And that's just purely civilian family transport. What comes after those decades we can discuss at that time, nobody knows what situation will be at that time.
You drive 800km without taking a break? With a family?
Last time I took my Taycan for a long drive (6 hours in -15C) we took a break half way, and it charged so much faster than expected - so I had to exit the restaurant and go and move it.
It’s the best family car I've ever had, much better than all the BMWs but yeah, it is expensive although the running costs are low.
Yes I do, at least 2-3x a year. We do have breaks of course, but they last few minutes and cover toilets, stretch and some eating. Chargers logistics is simply another burden, manageable but definitely annoying at least.
And anything Porsche has massive TCO, wait till you start changing worn out parts. Manageable, but ROI is extremely bad to me and even best cars out there have to pass some logical checks.
> Used electric cars comfortable for a family of 4, with bigger trunk, can drive at least 800km fully loaded in winter in 1 go without ever thinking about battery state, or chargers network?
I enjoyed how this sentence escalated suddenly. It felt like you got halfway through then worried that there were actually used electric cars suitable for families of four with big trunks, and then massively overcompensated to rule those out and managed to rule out basically every EV.
The transition to electric vehicles is planned over decades. People act like they're being forced into electric cars today at gunpoint. Since we're talking about second hand cars you have decades of ICE purchasing ahead of you. I think for most people, it won't be that long before it just makes sense to switch. But you've got your long winter journies and fast charger phobia so you're a special case.
If I recall, Hertz requires 80% which is still terrible, considering the low range of some of their vehicles and that DC fast charging above 80% gets much slower against all that voltage pressure. So you can double your total charging time to get to 100% (accelerating battery wear in the process) or charge to 85% and hope that the 10 miles to the airport won't take more 5%.
Last I looked they allowed 70% charge. Still, your point stands and I won’t rent an EV anytime soon unless I was treating as an extended test drive where my schedule didn’t matter.
I'd guess that a lot of EV renters switch back to Turo or whatever company still offers them. For some reason, these threads attract a lot of people who act like noone likes renting them and very few say otherwise.
Nevertheless, there's definitely still a market here.
I wonder if the economics for the rental provider don't work as well: rentals probably get in more collisions (infrequent drivers + unfamiliar environment) and that's a problem if they can't get them back on the road quickly.
The economics for rental cars relies on resale value after one to two years, frequency of damage, and cost of repair.
All of these things suck for EVs in general, and Teslas in particular. The recent price cuts have demolished the resale value way more than any other car, rented EVs get damaged more frequently because people are unfamiliar with their behaviour and torque curves and acceleration, and the cost of repair is atrocious for Teslas, since their service infrastructure is severely lacking, i.e. it takes forever to get parts.
And on top of that, rental customers do not want an EV in an unfamiliar place. Everyone can find a gas station and fill it up before returning, but having to schedule your entire trip around charging infrastructure is a complete waste of time.
The only rental customers it makes sense for is people who already have an EV, love it, and know how to live with. But the problem is that Hertz was throwing the Teslas at customers willy-nilly as some kind of "luxury upgrade", with crap results.
I could see renting a Tesla once for the experience but, yeah, it would be unfamiliar both in the handling and the electric gee-gas. Hell, a lot of non-core ICE are already sufficiently non-standard I avoid them when I can in a rental.
The reason cited was the depreciation and reliability. Taking them at face value, presumably all other rental co’s would be hit with the same issues, potentially to a greater degree without having the buying power of Hertz
> Electric cars as an economic proposition have already proved themselves. That debate is pretty much over.
Have they? It seems that when rubber meets the road, so to speak, it is not a simple one-to-one replacement for gas or diesel vehicles. The day-to-day ownership is more complicated, planning your itinerary and day around sparse public charging and owning property to have at-home charging. Also, the long-term ownership, having low resale value due to the high repair costs of the electric drivetrain and low overall repairability, makes ownership a poor proposition for most average people.
Electric cars have been on the market for over a decade. Show me one that someone has kept past 200,000 miles. Meanwhile, you can find Toyotas and Hondas well past that benchmark all day on Marketplace.
The amount of EV misinformation in this thread is staggering.
There's heaps of Tesla cars that have done very significant mileage. And as battery technology improves, early generations have been covered by very generous warranties.
Here's one such story, finding others would be a low effort undertaking:
Those with 300-400k mileage cars, being earlier generations, a good number have had their battery replaced under warranty with new units. Reliability has only improved over the years, and again, the warranty time has been generous - unlimited km on earlier ones.
(My '22 LR3 is 8 year /192k KM, I've only done 19k KM over 2 years, so the limit won't be an issue. I plan on having it for at least that long. Oh and that's at least ~70% charged by rooftop PV).
Also: Other manufacturers are clearly playing catch up to Tesla, but they are getting there.
> Show me one that someone has kept past 200,000 miles. Meanwhile, you can find Toyotas and Hondas well past that benchmark all day on Marketplace.
Even among gas cars, those who buy new rarely keep cars that long. The average is about 8 years. I've owned several Hondas and Toyotas, and I've never hit 100k on one. (even though I have no doubt any of them would still be on the road) (My current car is a Kia EV6)
Even if you decide to get rid of your cars prematurely (that's your choice), the increased cost of ownership is reflected in their terrible resale value. Look at the trend lines of Tesla resale values.
I've owned Mercedes with over 300k and Hondas with over 250k.
Plug in hybrid, not pure BEV, but my 2014 GM Volt has 275K on it, have had to do minimal maintenance. Probably use 80-90% on battery only, few road trips where I've used gas.
I have a BEV as well, and I have to say - I don't understand why the PHEV market didn't take off. All the savings for daily trips, and the convenience of gas to never think about range anxiety.
