Never in this thread, nor anywhere else on HN, nor anywhere else do I speak generally about the Jews. In fact, when I see people doing that here on HN, I flag it. “The Jews” are not committing a genocide, they are not committing war crimes, they are not oppressing Palestinians. I don’t claim that, the UN doesn’t claim that, the only people claiming that are actual anti-Semites, and neither me, nor all pro-Palestinan people I know, want anything to do with these anti-Semites (except maybe punch them in the face).
The state of Israel is committing genocide, and “The Jews” have absolutely nothing to with the state of Israel. Which ethnicity the leaders of the state of Israel has, has nothing to with the rest of the people who share that ethnicity. To be absolutely clear: The Jews have done absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, I don’t want the Jews to do anything, except continue to exist and share their amazing culture with the rest of the world.
Now, with that out of the way. Genocide is clearly defined by the UN. It is a pretty universal and undisputed definition. Most nation (152 to be exact; see list[1]) have signed and put into law this same definition, including both Israel (in 1950) and Palestine (in 2014). This includes nations in both hemispheres, on all 6 habitable continents, of all major religion, indigenous nations, former colonies, current colonizers, countries with minority representation, majority minority nations, homogeneous nations etc. Even countries that have in the past been perpetrators and victims of genocide have signed on this definition of Genocide.
I’m not making any claims here which isn’t pretty much universally accepted. And according to this definition—which is universally accepted—it has been ruled by many experts and a legal authority on the matter, that it is plausible that Israel (not the Jews) are committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza as a group.
You see, I also want Palestinians in Gaza to continue to exist and share their amazing culture with the rest of the world. And as of now it is plausible that the state of Israel is working to deny them this existence, by committing a genocide against them. For that I do indeed hate the state of Israel, just as I hate Nazis trying to deny Jewish people the right to exist. In fact my heart is full of hatred towards the ideology of Zionism. But at the same time my heart is full of love towards Jewish people.
I’m curious, what does Israel need to do before you’ll consider it criminal, how should those crimes be reported before you’ll believe them, instead of rejecting them as anti-semitic lies?
As we speak people are investigating a the mass grave at Nasser hospital in Khan Younis. I’ll give you 4 pro-Zionist or pro Israel sources reporting on it[1][2][3][4] (including one which 3/4 of the news is a direct quote from the IDF[4]). The final count of bodies found in that mass-grave is 392, and all sources agree at least 200 people were burred there.
The IDF claims there is no mass-grave and that the bodies were unearthed months ago. CNN (a pro-zionist newspaper) is not convinced and claims to have evidence that which counters the IDF claims[5], including evidence that some of the victims burred in their hospital gowns.
There are even reports that many of the bodies show signs of torture, executions, and being buried alive[6]. There are calls for an independent investigation from all sides except the IDF (who want no investigation) and the US State Department (that wants Israel to investigate their own crimes). I’m sure there will be an investigation and it will conclude the existence of the mass grave with at least 200 victims of IDF violence (the 392 figure probably includes older bodies). I’m also sure this future independent investigation will conclude there are some evidence of torture and at least 10 victims were executed.
Let’s say for the sake of argument that I’m right, and in 2 months this report comes out. Will you then simply claim that the independent investigation was conducted by Jew-haters and is not based in reality?
Let’s level set, everyone agrees that CNN, BBC, and NBC are much more sympathetic to Hamas than they are to any Jews or Israel. The NYT is historically much more sympathetic to Arabs than they are to Jews, the one exception being the rape report which has caused a giant outcry internally because it casts Hamas and Arabs in such a negative light. So your claim is bogus on its face, you claim to be bringing “pro-Zionist” sources but are instead bringing mostly pro-terrorist sources.
But let’s get back on topic: you’ve totally ignored everything I’ve said and brought in another red herring to deflect to. I can easily reject this “mass-graves” nonsense as you can easily see from the IDF claims they were just digging up graves to confirm that no hostages were buried there. Hamas themselves reported months ago that they dug and filled a mass grave… you continue to lie and make totally false claims.
For me to believe any claims of war crimes they MUST come from credible sources. Who is credible? Well considering every single Gazan we’ve seen so far has shown themselves ready to lie about everything, I’d say we’d need irrefutable video and audio footage, from multiple angles, fully contextualized from start to finish like Hamas provided for their own crimes (Which you still deny happened at all).
So far all you’ve done is bring lies and innuendo as well as your own skewed sick biases.
I find it very telling that you refuse to acknowledge that Israel and the Jewish people are irrefutably linked, that you continue to toss around “Zionist” like some sort of insult and that thus far you’ve refused to even consider your own biases.
If the report comes out and shows with actual irrefutable evidence that genocide was committed then I would concede to your conclusion, but considering no war crimes have yet been committed by Israel or the IDF, despite this being the most watched conflict in the world, I know what we’re gonna see is a report full of lies and misinformation that does its hardest to redefine what war crimes are, what genocide is and then paint the target around that. Handily lampooning Israel and Jews alone while ignoring the fact that these new definitions will obviously implicate everyone who engages in any conflict in anyway.
What would you need to see to be convinced that no war crimes by Jews took place, that instead you were fed lies? Would it be enough to see Hamas admit to telling lies constantly? Would be enough to be shown that Hamas has never once told the truth? Would it be enough to see that Hamas film themselves committing war crimes and then blaming the Jews? What would it take?
Finally the fact that you claiming that all western media is pro-zionist tells me that you are 100% trolling. Likely for some disinformation producing country like Russia or Iran. This will be my last engagement with you.
The state of Israel is committing genocide, and “The Jews” have absolutely nothing to with the state of Israel. Which ethnicity the leaders of the state of Israel has, has nothing to with the rest of the people who share that ethnicity. To be absolutely clear: The Jews have done absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, I don’t want the Jews to do anything, except continue to exist and share their amazing culture with the rest of the world.
Now, with that out of the way. Genocide is clearly defined by the UN. It is a pretty universal and undisputed definition. Most nation (152 to be exact; see list[1]) have signed and put into law this same definition, including both Israel (in 1950) and Palestine (in 2014). This includes nations in both hemispheres, on all 6 habitable continents, of all major religion, indigenous nations, former colonies, current colonizers, countries with minority representation, majority minority nations, homogeneous nations etc. Even countries that have in the past been perpetrators and victims of genocide have signed on this definition of Genocide.
I’m not making any claims here which isn’t pretty much universally accepted. And according to this definition—which is universally accepted—it has been ruled by many experts and a legal authority on the matter, that it is plausible that Israel (not the Jews) are committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza as a group.
You see, I also want Palestinians in Gaza to continue to exist and share their amazing culture with the rest of the world. And as of now it is plausible that the state of Israel is working to deny them this existence, by committing a genocide against them. For that I do indeed hate the state of Israel, just as I hate Nazis trying to deny Jewish people the right to exist. In fact my heart is full of hatred towards the ideology of Zionism. But at the same time my heart is full of love towards Jewish people.
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_the_Genocid...