On: Runtipi: Docker-based home server management

[zer00eyz]

This is the truth.

Containers as a bag that you put shitty software in to isolate it from the rest of your system and its peers...

The whole downstream, vs upstream, who should package what and where do you get software is showing us what the real problem is.

Software, should be easy to instal.

Containers are a terrible way to do that.

[stavros → zer00eyz]

What's easier than containers? It sounds to me like you let your hate of the problem carry over to hating the solution.

I have a Python web app, what's a better way to distribute it than containers?

[apitman → stavros]

I basically agree with you, but it would be nice if containers were a bit simpler. Apptainer does some really nice things for example.

[zer00eyz → stavros]

I like python, I write python. I think python is the high fructose corn surup of programing, its in everything, embedded, web, ML, data science ....

>> What's easier than containers?

Easy is the wrong metric. It is easy to not scoop your dogs poop when you take him on a walk. It is easy to drop your trash on the ground and not take it to a can... Easy is a BAD METRIC.

Python is one of the problems. your code + Runtime + random libs + venv. thats a lot of nonsense that could be a binary blob. Part of this is the fault of python (or js, or ruby or...) a lot of it is on us as software devs.

And micro services had a hand in this... Your N services dont run on N*X pieces of hardware. They run on far less and end up on virtual networks taking to each other over https when they could be using direct communication. It's even more laughable if they go out to a load balancer first.

Software packaging and delivery is a problem. We should figure out a few good ways to fix that.

[jrm4 → zer00eyz]

Easy is the correct metric if, like me, you believe the solutions to our major problems in the software space involve not "trying to get the few companies to behave better," but "trying to get MORE PEOPLE to understand -- and put in practice -- that this doesn't have to be in the hands of a few companies."

[psd1 → zer00eyz]

You've conflated "easy" with "littering". The easiness of littering is an argument for littering, not against easiness.

[allarm → zer00eyz]

So, there’s no better way.

[watermelon0 → stavros]

As much as I like scripting languages, the fact that you cannot build a single statically-built executable is the main problem when it comes to distribution.

Go/Rust are miles ahead in that regard, and the only reason to use containers with them is the sandbox aspect.

(There are ways to create a self-contained executable including Python interpreter, code, and all dependencies, but it's far from ideal, and just going with Docker is a lot less problematic.)

[stavros → watermelon0]

Sure, but I have a Python web app.