Commercial beekeepers aggressively manage for varroa and other diseases, if they didn't the resulting dieoffs would bankrupt them. Backyard hobbyists don't have more skin in the game than folks who literally pay their mortgage off their hives, and they sure af don't have more experience with any aspect of hive management than individuals who are successfully managing hundreds if not thousands of hives.
IPM isn't "treatment-free" beekeeping which I think we'd both agree is gross neglegence. IPM techniques are also rarely used effectively. Don't agree? Figure out what percentage of hobby beekeepers in your area have reached the level of experience/education of a journeyman beekeeper. If it's 20:1 I'll kiss your ass. Regardless of treatment strategy one management fuckup leading to a single hive collapse absolutely sprays the surrounding 2-3 mile area with diseases and parasites. Given annual failure rates all beekeepers are bombing their surroundings with problems, hobby beekeepers just do so for their own personal amusement regardless of which treatment strategy they employ, and treatment-free beekeepers are way WAY worse about this than any other segment of the industry.
Lastly, I advanced no claim that commercial practices are particularly superior at keeping bees alive, although they and related government ag programs are the only credible sources of ongoing breeding to improve varroa resistance, an effort that is vastly complicated by having to geographically isolate breeding operations to try to avoid cross-breeding from unmanaged populations (read backyard hives).
Just a note from a random, uninformed bystander that your posts are coming off as bizarrely aggressive, rude, combative, and dismissive (regardless of what your intent may be).
You may be 100% right about what you're talking about (I don't know either way), but I'm not particularly inclined to take you seriously based on how you're conversing. I'm much more inclined to believe the person you've been having back-and-forth with.
"Commercial beekeepers aggressively manage for varroa and other diseases, if they didn't the resulting dieoffs would bankrupt them."
Who is speaking nonsense now? Yes, they typically treat for some pests and disease. Those pests and diseases that they generally treat for do not affect native bees. Even when they do treat, they don't have full elimination and are still transmissible. You can see they they still suffer about 50% colony loss like the smaller producers.
"and they sure af don't have more experience with any aspect of hive management than individuals who are successfully managing hundreds if not thousands of hives."
And the people keeping hundreds and thousands of hives for commercial purposes don't have as much time to spend on full inspections. If they know so much about management, then they must be making intentionally poor decisions on how to manage when we talk about things like colony dirft and hive densities, transporting bees all over the place (accelerating any existing spread), and subjecting the bees to active spraying during pollination.
"One management fuckup leading to a single hive collapse absolutely sprays the surrounding 2-3 mile area with diseases and parasites."
Have any data to back that up? You do realize that many of the pests and diseases are routinely present in most hives, right? That's why you need actually concentrations for diagnosing things like nosema. I'd love to see an example of an apiary that has zero varroa too...
"Given annual failure rates all beekeepers are bombing their surroundings with problems, hobby beekeepers just do so for their own personal amusement regardless of which treatment strategy they employ."
This makes zero sense. You claim that all beekeepers are problems. But you only have a problem with small scale producers because they aren't paying their mortgage with it. Interesting distinction which bears no matter on the end result. So it appears this conversation is moot.
"an effort that is vastly complicated by having to geographically isolate breeding operations to try to avoid cross-breeding from unmanaged populations (read backyard hives)."
This is complete nonsense. The breeding programs rely on artificial insemination. You can't control the feral bee populations either, so you must do it in a lab. Most of these government bodies and ag extensions have resources (and requirements) for small scale beekeepers, and even encourage it. Most states have mandatory licensing and inspections too. Most beekeeping associations openly welcome beekeepers of any size operations. It seems you just have an axe to grind.
You need data to confirm the assertion that collapsing hives spread disease? Since you're so married to whatever chip you've got on your shoulder you apparently need a reminder that sick bees drifting to other hives and robbing out deadouts are both a thing I've appended a list of follow-up reading for your benefit.
Martin SJ. The role of Varroa and viral pathogens in the collapse of honeybee colonies: a modeling approach. J Appl Ecol. 2001;38(5):1082-1093. [doi:10.1046/j.1365-2664.2001.00662.x]
Rosenkranz P, Aumeier P, Ziegelmann B. Biology and control of Varroa destructor. J Invertebr Pathol. 2010;103 Suppl 1:S96-S119. [doi:10.1016/j.jip.2009.07.016]
Graystock P, Blane EJ, McFrederick QS, Goulson D, Hughes WOH. Do managed bees drive parasite spread and emergence in wild bees? Int J Parasitol Parasites Wildl. 2016;5(1):64-75. [doi:10.1016/j.ijppaw.2015.12.001]
With that out of the way not -all- breeding programs rely on artificial insemination, maybe you've heard of Mike Palmer? You know, the guy that basically singlehandedly mainstreamed keeping nucleus colonies as an apiary management strategy? Or Randy Oliver? No? Your loss I suppose.
"You need data to confirm the assertion that collapsing hives spread disease?"
Nope. What I need is data backing up your claim that it's a disease "bomb" for everything in a few mile area. I've seen some of those papers and other like them, but they do not support your hyperbolic claims. Had you claimed something reasonable, then they might be what you need.
"With that out of the way not -all- breeding programs rely on artificial insemination, maybe you've heard of Mike Palmer? You know, the guy that basically singlehandedly mainstreamed keeping nucleus colonies as an apiary management strategy? Or Randy Oliver? No? Your loss I suppose."
Of course I've heard of them. Both of them do promote IPM and genetic strategies for varroa. They might do open air breeding, but they also aren't strict about thier genetics. If you get a production queen they're not guaranteed to be VSH, but there's a good chance they are. Any beekeeper should be evaluating their stock regardless of claimed providence.
"Go salve your feelings somewhere else, I'm done."
Good, your insulting, close minded, and illogical discourse does not belong on HN.
Commercial beekeepers aggressively manage for varroa and other diseases, if they didn't the resulting dieoffs would bankrupt them. Backyard hobbyists don't have more skin in the game than folks who literally pay their mortgage off their hives, and they sure af don't have more experience with any aspect of hive management than individuals who are successfully managing hundreds if not thousands of hives.
IPM isn't "treatment-free" beekeeping which I think we'd both agree is gross neglegence. IPM techniques are also rarely used effectively. Don't agree? Figure out what percentage of hobby beekeepers in your area have reached the level of experience/education of a journeyman beekeeper. If it's 20:1 I'll kiss your ass. Regardless of treatment strategy one management fuckup leading to a single hive collapse absolutely sprays the surrounding 2-3 mile area with diseases and parasites. Given annual failure rates all beekeepers are bombing their surroundings with problems, hobby beekeepers just do so for their own personal amusement regardless of which treatment strategy they employ, and treatment-free beekeepers are way WAY worse about this than any other segment of the industry.
Lastly, I advanced no claim that commercial practices are particularly superior at keeping bees alive, although they and related government ag programs are the only credible sources of ongoing breeding to improve varroa resistance, an effort that is vastly complicated by having to geographically isolate breeding operations to try to avoid cross-breeding from unmanaged populations (read backyard hives).