Tell HN: I'm Disillusioned

[throwmenow]

You know when we find out something bad that was hidden, like right now on the front page:

"Microsoft Is Spying on Users of Its AI Tools"

You know how I feel?

I feel "No surprise there. And now that we know about it, will someone do something about it?

Of course not."

That's all. Just wanted to talk about that. Counterexamples or not, the reality is justice rarely prevails, and that is horrible. Thanks for reading.

[elmerfud]

I haven't read that article in detail but the fact that companies provide tools in which they gather data on the usage and how those tools are used shouldn't be surprising. Generally using any of these things that companies provide have such a broadly written terms of service that you literally have no protections beyond what the law provides protections for. Since the law is mostly written by corporate lawyers much of those protections that the law can afford you as defaults also can be voluntarily given up as well.

Just as an example of how horrendous it has gotten for the protections you can give up look at a purchase agreement for an automobile or an RV or something like that. A physical piece of property with a warranty that is protected by law and you effectively give up everything the law could protect you on during that purchase. There is no negotiation on that point either you either purchase it or you do not because the free market has not provided that different dealers have better purchase agreements than others it's all boilerplate of you lose all protections except the most minimum which you cannot give up by law.

So speaking about Justice here, in a legal sense, what has been violated? Almost nobody reads those terms of service especially when the service itself may be free. Therefore they're bound to buy something they didn't really look at. Talking about it in a moral sense of justice, I agree these companies are abusive and will continue to be so. Putting legal restraints around them can't help but that is a double-edged sword as well it can have some benefits and it can have some downsides.

Now if there is actual laws that are being violated, the wheels of Justice do move slowly but eventually they catch up. Unfortunately and cases such as this it's often that the punishment when an organization like the FTC catches up isn't sufficient to prevent future violations. Companies feel emboldened that they can operate in what they consider a gray area knowing that they will secure enough profits to pay any fines should they happen in the future.

In the United States we often like to criticize certain things about China and their "regime", but I would have to say in some regards they actually have some teeth when it comes to corporations violating laws and other such things. In many ways much stronger personal property and personal identity rights. Unfortunately the will of the people is rarely unified enough to overcome the will of the corporations in the US.

[favourable]

If your IP is from $BadCountry then MS tars and feathers you, but for the vast majority of users they're not crafting bespoke crimeware to be used in APTs.

[EchoChamberMan]

You are not alone in those feelings!

[anovikov]

What's so bad about it? It's a two-way street. You are hardly risking anything if you exploit illegal or quasi-illegal data collection for your benefit, unless you really mess up or personally upset important people.

[throwmenow → anovikov]

What a blind response, justifying bad practices with legal loopholes.

[smoldesu → throwmenow]

What do you want? Do you want us to lie to you, and say that all your private Apple/Microsoft/Google data is safe and sound? Do you want bedtime stories about the altruism of your local intelligence agency and the safety FIVE-EYES provides? Do you want Michael Hayden to whisper "we kill people based on metadata" in your ear as you drift off to sleep?

The "blind response" is expecting human behavior to not justify bad practices with fallible, abstract logic. You're right, you are disillusioned if you're this deep into capitalism and expect orderly altruism from... the free market.