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A VC-backed pip-and-more doesn't make sense to me. It's 2024: what's the revenue model when the free money printer's on the fritz?



That was one of my first questions, but Anaconda exists https://www.anaconda.com/download/

Python is used by loads of scientists, academics, and other non software engineers. Those people need an easy way to use python.


I knew they sold something, but I am amazed to learn they have 300 employees.


Anaconda is very big in corporate envs.

If you want to have a platform that allow to manage Python on all machines, including allowed packages and version, integrated with ldap, with auditing capabilities, they are pretty much the only game in town.

And big companies want that.


Even bigger now that their distribution is integrated in Excel[1]

[1]: https://www.anaconda.com/blog/announcing-python-in-excel-nex...


I agree. Real question: Why didn't ActiveState (ActivePython) win this battle? In my corporate experience, they are invisible.


Because Continum had a loss leader with anaconda that, in 2010, was solving a ton of packaging problems.

Today I would say anaconda brings more problems than it solves (https://www.bitecode.dev/p/why-not-tell-people-to-simply-use), but at the time, we didn't have wheels for everything, and it was a life saver for anybody that wanted to use c extensions.

So anaconda became first popular because it solved a real end user problem, then it moved on to be the corporation providers because it already was well known.

It was a very good strategy.


The issue is there's c extensions, and there's c extensions. Something like cryptography is self-contained (kinda, we're sweeping a lot under the carpet with rust here), whereas something like pytorch cares much more about what environment it was built in and will run in (and then there's things like mpi4py, which you can't really distribute wheels for on PyPI). conda, by basically distributing a full userland (which has its own issues), can handle all those packages, and even more hairy ones (e.g. how would you manage the R packages you use for r2py), and because it runs on Windows (similar solutions before and after conda were tied to, or at least started with, unix-based systems), it replaced the less general ones on Windows which usually only supported a limited number of packages (e.g. ActivePython, Enthought).

PyPI distributed wheels (you can obviously build wheels however you like, but that doesn't mean they'll run on others' systems) may at some point get close to what conda does (likely by reinventing it in an ad-hoc fashion), but there's enough mindshare (especially around its target of "data science", where all the tutorials are around using conda) that I don't see it disappearing.


They were quite big in the 2000, on my bubble they faded away as .NET and Java with their IDEs came into the picture, alongside Tcl, Perl and Python improving their Windows support story.

They were never big outside Windows shops.


Why they need so much employees?


Sell build-related services to companies. Imagine GitHub Actions, but it's cleanly built into your Python tooling in some reasonable way, so it's just the natural thing to use. I think it's pretty straightforward, although we'll see whether it works out for them.


NPM comes to mind. I’m imagining private package management and team support https://www.npmjs.com/products


npm, Inc. was an unsuccessful business that got acquired for a pittance because MS can afford to throw away a few million dollars in case it turns out that having control over npm is useful. The team working on it isn't very large but I'd still be surprised if it's actually operating at a profit.


NPM did not go well, and selling to Microsoft happened after the team there fell apart. In my view some of that is leadership issues, and some of that is pressure from a struggling business.


NPM’s got Microsoft/GitHub behind it. I doubt those features bring in any serious money, given the abundance of free alternatives.


I'm curious to see what the pydantic start up will do.


I read their about page and it seems they want to make Python dev more productive. Maybe they have a lot of projects using it and are tired of the tooling/packaging BS. I could definitely see someone making billions allocate under 1% of it towards fixing that.

Improving Python is especially cheap compared to the productivity that could be unleashed. Surprised it isn't done more often. Only microsoft has shown significant interest, which is a shame. Perhaps changing.




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