Just think of them as sanctions. If you try to break any embargo, you will get hit with a missile on the face. That's how embargos usually work. And by international order, you mean "western order" right? Every sanction and embargo has the purpose of disrupting some sort of order. Try running a USN embargo or blockade, I'm not sure they would be more diplomatic about it than the Houthis.
We are currently seeing a higher civilian death rate than we saw back in February 2022, yet it doesn't seem like a lot of people complained about disrupting international order when Russia was sanctioned. And they were well deserved sanctions ,it just turns out that it's not just the US or Europe that can care about civilian deaths.
Especially since those countries don't necessarily seem to care a lot about non white civilian deaths, since absolutely 0 western country condemned Israel even when they put literal war criminals like Russia to shame in terms of sheer destruction and indiscriminate murder.
When "the international community" (aka, the west) drops the ball on that regard and lets it happen for close to 4 months now, well what do they expect?
> We are currently seeing a higher civilian death rate than we saw back in February 2022, yet it doesn't seem like a lot of people complained about disrupting international order when Russia was sanctioned.
This is a false equivalence. Israel was attacked first, brutally. Russia was not attacked; theirs is a war of agression, pure and simple. It is clear that the fundamental cause of the Ukraine war is a desire by Putin and his ilk to restore the old soviet "empire". [1]
Actually, that has been the cause of many wars down through the centuries. A former power, or a country that thinks it needs to play a more powerful role in world affairs, seeking (re)ascendancy. It happened with Germany and Japan in WW2, and it is happening with Russia now. But it seems people will believe anything but what the aggressors themselves clearly want.
Do you know what the Muslim nations say among themselves, what their ultimate objective is? Without understanding that, it is impossible to place the Israeli-Arab conflict in proper perspective.
It doesn't matter. Attacking first or being attacked does not give you the right to level a complete city and does not give you the right to openly call for displacing a population. Israel is also actively pushing for colonization of Palestinian lands well before the war started, just like Russia was slowly trying to encroach on Ukrainian lands at first.
Even beyond the whatboutism in your comment, sure yeah, let's talk about how trying to restore old entities and states is a bad thing. But isn't that the whole premise of Zionism? It's literally the reasoning behind the Israel state backed settlements in the west bank. Somehow I guess Israeli colonialism is just different... because reasons. And somehow, it's not an act of aggression. Sure! And before you say that Gaza didn't have any colonies, well they didn't exactly because they have been aggressive (and it doesn't matter, Palestinians view themselves as a nation so it happening in the west bank is just as important for people living in Gaza).
The west bank stopped "being aggressive" and stopped the armed struggle and they have been rewarded with 2 decades of constant, blatant pushes for ever more settlements by literal lunatics and Israeli supremacists. All endorsed fully by the military and the Israeli state.
I completely got that. A few months ago I'd have said you are being dramatic, but the insane mental gymnastics that people do to justify and even cheering for Israel's actions while at the very same time have the reaction they had to Ukraine getting invaded back in 2022 leaves me with no other possible conclusion. And to be honest I don't even care, I get it and I don't expect westerners to care about us but what annoys me is truly that they actually believe that there is no hypocrisy or biais. So they just go on full on revisionism, colonialist apologia, they suddenly believe everything the military that is currently killing civilians says, and they use literal Russian tier arguments of "well they voted for Hamas 15 years ago!". Just because Israel is on our side, so what they do is justified, and Russia isn't
Like, Israel openly claiming that their goal is to basically relocate and displace the local Gaza population is good actually, it's just self defense. And hey, we can't avoid civilian deaths and Israel has the right to self defense (defense is when you colonize another nation). It's insane, Israeli officials are super open about their objectives but it seems like Israel supporters know better than them.
No, you got it wrong. I would say that the current outcry about Gaza is mostly driven by a false sense of siding with the underdog. But just because some people appear to be the underdog doesn't mean they are right.
And just so you know, I'm not white. Not even probably brown, ethnically. I'm classified as black African, and, and from where I sit, the Middle Eastern nations are not in any position to point fingers at a supposed disregard of brown lives, when one considers how they treat migrants, a lot from Africa. Arab "slavery" of Africans is still a thing
Settler violence is certainly wrong. However Israel also left Gaza years ago and have been rewarded with constant rocket attacks, and more.
> Like, Israel openly claiming that their goal is to basically relocate and displace the local Gaza population is good actually
Fine, tell me what the solution is then. If your response is that Israel ceases to exist, then I guess there is no longer a basis for discussion - good luck - I have no bone in this. But if not, then how is the security of Israel to be ensured? The vast amount of funds that flowed into Gaza has only been used to attack Israel, and Gazans are now much worse off. How is this a wise course of action?
See this is exactly the double standard I was talking about. Why do you just say that "settler violence is wrong But..."? It's not just settler violence that is the problem, it's the fact that the Israeli state completely backs said colonies. Why does Israel gets to exist, no matter what, but Palestinians can be displaced and removed at will if it allows Israel to keep existing?
Also, as I said in my other comment, the west bank did exactly what you suggest. They stopped the armed struggle, they started a more democratic path. In return, Israel has pushed colonies relentlessly. In that situation, why wouldn't the Palestinians fight? Just like Israel would fight anyone who tries to settler their land.
And to say that they left Gaza alone is just an outright lie. They have had control over every port of entry, with merchandise not being able to enter into Gaza with Israeli approval since... the 1980s. Before the Hamas boogeyman. They have also stated that they wanted to push for a return to settlements (a minister in nethanyahou's government said so overtly back in April). Again completely unpunished.
Also, what do Palestinians have to do with African slavery? Do we attribute that to all Arabs? Does that logic works too for blaming say, a Nigerian for something South Africans do? Do you blame Israelis for their treatment of Ethiopian Jews?
> And to say that they left Gaza alone is just an outright lie. They have had control over every port of entry, with merchandise not being able to enter into Gaza with Israeli approval since... the 1980s. Before the Hamas boogeyman.
How can you say that with a straight face. Israel implemented a blockade to prevent _weapons_ from flowing into Gaza, a good thing, I would say. Or are you saying they prevented aid from flowing into Gaza? That would be quite the claim.
> Also, what do Palestinians have to do with African slavery? Do we attribute that to all Arabs? Does that logic works too for blaming say, a Nigerian for something South Africans do? Do you blame Israelis for their treatment of Ethiopian Jews?
I was responding to your claim that brown lives matter less in the west. If you are painting with such a broad brush like the "west", then may I also be permitted to paint with a similar brush "Middle East". Are you saying Palestinians are somehow more moral that Arabs in general?
But, you don't even address my main point. What's your solution? For Israel to cease to exist?
They absolutely prevented aid from flowing. There's a single crossing where merchandise is allowed, and it's in Israel. Egypt is not allowed to let merchandise in , and that's since the camp David treaty back in the 70s. Way before Gaza became an insurgent nest. The west bank was the hotspot back then but it didn't prevent Israel from preventing any development there, and occupying the place until 2005.
Also, for a concrete example, you can look at the Gaza flotilla attack where Israel not only prevented aid, but literally murdered those on the ship. Just like the Houthis do, I guess :). Again, how can Israel claim that they have left Gaza alone when it is literally completely cutting it off from the outside world (again, the Gaza residents are at the mercy of whatever goes through Israel before Hamas took control). Hamas is a convenient boogeyman, but before Hamas Israel settlements already existed, Israeli occupation and complete control over external connections was already in place, etc.
Israel does not leave the west bank alone either now, even with no real armed groups left there.
Which one of my friends? And sure, maybe I contradicted myself. You on the other hand completely ignored or handwaved pretty important stuff like Israel colonies in areas that stopped fighting. Have a good day too.
Honestly, people can’t seem to judge an event by only that event.
Let’s be honest here, the west has probably done the worst amount of damage to the most, both in count and diversity, people out there. Yet we do not sit around saying, ah westerners deserve to be killed because of $historical_event_#.
For some reason, that judgment is always valid to brown folk. As a brown person in the west I’ve basically accepted that I’m only considered a human in this country as long as I toe the line and agree with the status quo. If I step out too much I’m worth less than an animal.
We are currently seeing a higher civilian death rate than we saw back in February 2022, yet it doesn't seem like a lot of people complained about disrupting international order when Russia was sanctioned. And they were well deserved sanctions ,it just turns out that it's not just the US or Europe that can care about civilian deaths.
Especially since those countries don't necessarily seem to care a lot about non white civilian deaths, since absolutely 0 western country condemned Israel even when they put literal war criminals like Russia to shame in terms of sheer destruction and indiscriminate murder.
When "the international community" (aka, the west) drops the ball on that regard and lets it happen for close to 4 months now, well what do they expect?