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Also believe the first unassisted powered flight (aka airplane) was by Alberto Santos Dumont.


"Unassisted" is a pointless qualifier only used to make Dumont win. There is no reason why something that uses a catapult for takeoff does not qualify to be an aircraft.

Especially when the Wright brothers plane could fly properly and under control, flying 24 miles, including many turns, a year before Dumont could barely manage a few hundred meters in a nearly straight line and ended his flight in an uncontrolled roll.


Let me know the next time you take a flight by catapult or glider and we’ll see how pointless an independent engine is.


The Wright flyers had their own engine. They were not gliders. The Wrights were making long, controlled flights powered by engines years before Dumont. First flights in 1903, first complete circle flight in 1904, and flights of over 20 miles and half an hour in 1905. The 1903 flight did not use a catapult, although several of their 1904 and 1905 flights did.

Dumont made a flight of 50 meters in 1906. Dumont's 1906 plane had no ability to do turns, rolls, or banking, useful maneuvers when you take a flight. It was not something that could be considered a usable airplane.


Not what I meant by independent. Meant that it didn’t need additional power.


Dumont (and all early flyers) used headwinds to increase effective airspeed at takeoff. Does that disqualify him? The Wrights also of course used headwinds and then added catapults to reduce their dependence on ideal headwinds to enable faster progress in a wider range of conditions.

For decades most orbital rockets took off in an easterly direction, effectively using the earth's rotation as a catapult. Does that disqualify them as successful orbital flights?


You are making it complicated on purpose. It's actually pretty simple.

Did you take the airplane out, start it up, and take off? Like a modern, independent airplane? Or did you shoot it out of device first, because it wasn't able?

And not even particularly important, by the way. The last time this kind of argument was novel to me was in the mid-nineties at Slashdot.


As I said, the Wright's did not use the catapult in 1903. Three years before Dumont's 1906 flight of 60 metres, they flew well over 250 meters without catapult assist at takeoff. In 1904 they also flew over 400 meters without catapult assist. After that flight they started using a weight-powered catapult to simplify takeoffs and speed development.

So yes, it is simple. The Wrights flew without "shooting it out of a device" years before Dumont. The Wright Flyer was also capable of lateral control, like a modern, independent airplane.




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