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Samsung forecasts 85% drop in profit as chip sales falter (joins.com)
178 points by ilamont 4 months ago | hide | past | favorite | 148 comments



Big pet peeve is when journalists highlight the percentage change in profit in the headline just because it's a bigger, scarier number. Big companies swing from profits to losses (and vice versa) all the time, but you rarely see it highlighted as "Profits drop 158%!" because (a) that doesn't really make sense, but more importantly (b) it highlights how dumb it is to use percentage change in profit in the first place.

The more useful metric is given in the article: revenue was down 14.6 percent on year.


Exactly. Historically semiconductors don't generate much profit. 2% profit would be a banner year for Samsung. 85% reduction from that would not be that notable.


Samsung also suffered from the Japan-South Korea trade war that caused Samsung and other South Korean companies to lose preferential access to Japan, which lead to Japanese manufacturers pivoting to alternative suppliers.


> 2% profit would be a banner year for Samsung. 85% reduction from that would not be that notable.

Which history? The last 20 years have been extraordinarily lucrative in semiconductors. All eras aren't the same and today's semiconductor business - which is heavily consolidated and gigantic - is not similar to the distant past.

A normal operating profit margin for the semiconductor business is 15-30%. No healthy semiconductor business today is routinely operating at sub 5% operating income margins.

2% profit isn't a banner year, that's a bad year for any relevant semiconductor company of the last quarter century.

Intel, Taiwan Semi, Nvidia, Qualcomm, Texas Instruments, ASML, Analog Devices, LAM, KLA, Broadcom, NXP, ON Semi

Take a look at their operating profit margins. Nobody in that sector with a normal to healthy business is operating anywhere close to a 2% profit. Nearly all the majors more routinely operate with abnormally fat profit margins compared to other types of business.

ASML has a 30%+ operating income margin.

Nvidia has historically been around 15-25% operating income margin, and are now approaching 50%.

The average operating income margin for Intel over the past 25 years is closer to 20-25%.

Taiwan Semi is at 40-45% operating income margin.

Qualcomm is at 20%.

Texas Instruments is over 40%.

Analog Devices is at 30%.

Applied Materials is at 30%. KLA is at 35-40%. LAM is at 25-30%.

Broadcom is at 40%.

NXP is at 20-30%.

ON is at 20-30%.

These are normal margins today for semis. And you could cut them in half and they're still drastically above the low single digit area.


> Which history?

Mine? I worked there for a decade. I suppose I should have qualified my statement by saying "Samsung semiconductors".


The semiconductor industry is split into two key components:

- fabs

- engineering design centers

Broadcom is hardly a semi company anymore after all its high-margin software acquisitions (see: VMWare, Computer Associates/"CA Technologies", etc).

Qualcomm doesn't operate any fabs that ship to customers.

Nvidia doesn't make anything.

Many of the others in your list have found profitable niches at scale that are huge value-adds to their customers. The semi space is known for consolidation and many of these players are the last survivor in their field, which lends itself to profitable operations that don't have competitors due to the costs of entry.


I find the profit metric more useful.


Why? Profit is the difference between revenue and expenses. Samsung could simultaneously see an increase in expenses and a reduction in revenue. Only the latter shows a true market slowdown. The former shows Samsung either investing in future R&D or experiencing larger inefficiencies.

If the story is that the market is slowing, a revenue forecast is more helpful. If the story is that Samsung is investing in R&D, sure, profit works, but it requires an explanation of where the operating income is being spent. If the story is Samsung is poorly run, then profit works, but an additional explanation of where the inefficiencies are is required.


It is definitely useful, but not as a direct proxy for demand.


Is it just chips? Because their consumer appliance division seems to have huge problems. I bought a fridge and it was fully dead in under 6 months. I was able to get a full refund because they lost a class action lawsuit, but it's crazy how bad their appliances are, I don't trust samsung for anything, also:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2023/10/2....


Their Semiconductor's and Memory division is Samsung's cash cow [0]. All their consumer electronics divisions are basically attempts at cashing into adjacent sectors (eg. Samsung started making chips and displays for cellphone makers like Nokia and Sony since the 1990s, so they pivoted into the smartphone world in the 2000s)

That said, not surprised by the semiconductor revenue decrease due to the trade war that happened between Korea and Japan [1] due to very acrimonious elections in SK in 2019 along with South Korea's de facto trade war with China [2] in the aftermath of the THAAD rollout (that's also why Vietnam is growing so fast - almost all Korean companies pivoted to Vietnam overnight after negotiating a very one sided free trade deal and moved operations literally overnight). Procurement lags by a couple years so the downward hit only began around 2023 from the looks of it.

Probably explains why South Korea acquiesced.

[0] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/630434/samsung-quarterly...

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan%E2%80%93South_Korea_trad...

[2] - https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-south-korea-sees-tech...


Most of the revenue tanking comes from decreased demand from Chinese markets.

Japan-Korea trade war was mostly for show and added an extra theoretical risk and bureaucracy but in actuality all the Japanese chip supply companies would have gone bankrupt had they enforced it, considering there are only two companies, TSMC and Samsung that buy supplies they sell, and TSMC wouldn't be able to magically take up Samsung's capacity. US would have been forced to keep Japanese companies supplying Samsung otherwise their high tech sectors would be in shambles / increased geopolitical risk of TSMC being sole supplier of higher end chips.

Samsung increased domestic and Chinese supply proportions in their supply chain and paid a little extra for other supplies they depend on Japanese supply companies since the trade 'sanctions' didn't block Japanese Chip companies from by-passing it via 3rd country rerouting. Some Japanese companies also built factories in Korea to bypass it.

Korea acquiesced mostly because Moon administration over-reached in trying to win brownie points from nationalist left by being "tough" on Japan which put them in a legally vulnerable position with Supreme court's judgement(by installing supreme court judges with clear ideological bend) in direct conflict with 1965 Japan-Korea agreement + increased geopolitical risk atmosphere from China/ Ukraine/Russian war.


> decreased demand from Chinese markets

Makes sense. That was my other hunch as well.

> Korea acquiesced mostly because Moon administration over-reached in trying to win brownie points from nationalist left by being "tough" on Japan which put them in a legally vulnerable position with Supreme court's judgement(by installing supreme court judges with clear ideological bend) in direct conflict with 1965 Japan-Korea agreement + increased geopolitical risk atmosphere from China/ Ukraine/Russian war.

Yep. Imo SK looks like it's entering a very turbulent political couple of years due to the DPK-People Power bickering. There has definitely been a fair amount of democratic backsliding due to a weaker civil society


I purposefully buy my appliances as 'dumb' as possible. The only thing I own that needs to be 'smart' is my computer, and I have complete control over its operating system.


Unfortunately, this is becoming somewhere between difficult and impossible.

Lots of vendors make their “dumb” stuff unequivocally worse than the smart stuff, but just not using the “smart”.

I think the worst part right now is over-complicated circuits to provide like button presses and stuff, then charging $400 when a small part of that circuit inevitably dies so you are forced to take your range to the metal reclaimers and get a new one.


I learnt to work on cars because they are nessessary part of life and if you cant fix them your going to be paying that tax everyday of your life. Ditto with computers and software. You know what else has become a nessesity as we grow into a more technological dependant society, learning about electronics. Being able to indentitf circuts, components, debug and replace them. Check out learn electronics repair / northridgefix on youtube if you want to get started. Hardware and software are very similiar, they follow the same principles, they are all made in the same ways, and just as software uses libraries/packages, hardware often will look exactly the same in each device. I bought an assortment of 1000 tactile switches for $10 off ebay, and Ive fixed atleast 5 appliances in the last year with them (head torches, vacume, washer etc).

If you dont, your tax will be to be a victim of the companies profit stratergy of planned obselesance. My dyson for instance was perfectly fine, just a peice of plastic in the handle that required you to dissassemble the whole machine was cracked. It was literly a free fix with some plastic welding a screwdriver.

PS. You can buy universal kits that will control a washer or a dryer these days in a low tech way amoung many other devices we use daily. When your smart appliance fails, you can retrofit them.

PSS. Your software/hacker spirit should not be limited to a text editor!


> if you cant fix them your going to be paying that tax everyday of your life.

You have calculated cost of learning? For me apart from very basic things like oil/water change, Learning anything else would have ROI over decades if not more.


I suspect this is because with "smart stuff" we often have the associated cellphone app which gives <corp> much deeper insight into your life. This stream of data from your personal life and home can be monetized in various ways. You can help _be_ the product when you _buy_ the product. Cool. /s


> ...I have complete control over its operating system.

But no control over BIOS, firmware for over 10 devices (wifi, bluetooth, camera, SSD, touchpad, and so on), a full hidden OS running on the CPU, etc.

Every USB device has their own code running on them.

Even laptop batteries have a microcontroller that's running something totally inaccessible to you.

While you can control the OS it's running, it's not really your computer.


You can buy cpus without the management engine enabled. You can burn whatever bios you want (though I recommend a compatible one), and you can install whatever drivers you want with whatever binary blob firmware you want. The OS loads that firmware at boot, so you do have full control (unless you are on a Mac).

I’m running a custom bios on my laptop that lets me tune whatever I want. It’s literally just code, like anything else.


Add trusted boot to the mix and suddenly you can't modify any of it.


Even off the shelf bioses let you set your own keys for safe boot.


Well, it will let be boot an OS that isn't Windows, cool. Still can't modify the signed firmware itself.


I mean, unless you’re running around with the windows source code, you’re not going to be doing much anyway with that os.

Look, I don’t think you know how this works. You actually have intimate control over a computer’s hardware, software, and firmware. I don’t know why you think otherwise.


Same here. From there you can control all sorts of open alternatives for smart things, if you need that. I prefer most of my appliances to be "dumb" but resilient.


I actually wish my computer was a tad dumber

It seems to have a mind of its own for a lot of stuff I with I had more control over


its not the "smart stuff" that is the problem (although that stuff is annoying and rarely helpful). I bought a house that had a samsung fridge built within the last 10 years. The fridge had a "defect" [1] where the defroster would leak water over the thermostat, which would then freeze, and most of the fridge would go warm because the thermostat thought it was below freezing. the appliance tech said this is a known defect and they sell aftermarket kits to fully thaw the thermostat. Furthermore, the icemaker would leak water that froze it in position (no, the defrost cycle wouldn't help), requiring an enormous amount of force to break out to unclog it and get ice again. Samsung is _absolutely_ , _positively_, _JUNK_.

[1] my personal conspiracy theory is they manufacture these defects on purpose to scare you into buying expensive warranties and slowly nudge you to buy a new fridge in 6 years.


We had problems with all Samsung appliances ever. The fridge leak was fixed by a longer defrost heat spreader. A different fridge has the icemaker freeze up requiring a heat gun session once a month. Knobs break off of stoves. Washing machine rusting in contact with cleaning chemicals. Etc. :-). Not my choice with the brand since they came with apartment or house we bought but definitely a good lesson.


What do you mean by dumb. Is having timer too smart for you and you want to manually turn it off or change modes? I have never seen washing machine any washing machine smarter than that. Even for the washing machines that label themselves as smart, it just sounds like a marketing term[1] and there is nothing smart about it.

[1]: https://www.samsung.com/us/home-appliances/washers/front-loa...


My Miele Washer/Dryer [1] has plenty of ‘smart’ features (which I consider to be more than just network connectivity - it’s also computer enabled features, rather than simple mechanical operations IMHO):

* Touchscreen or app control

* Notifies me thru the app when a wash/dry is complete (my appliance is in a utility room, so this is really useful)

* Predicts when it will finish (and showing the time and which stage it’s on in the app)

* Monitors its own progress and will inform me if it needs more time (like if the drying needs longer due to increased load size)

* Allows pausing a wash so other items can be added

* Has detergent dispensers that are monitored and lets me know when they’re low. It also works out the right amount of detergent to use based on size of load and other info you give it (see next item)

* Has a ‘washing assistant’ which is like an ‘install wizard’ where I select the types of clothing in the drum, its level of soiling, whether I want it dried or not, and various other features - it takes all that and works out the correct programme for the items (I can do this from my phone too - which is actually more useful than it sounds!).

* When the cycle is complete and it’s waiting for you to empty it, it goes into a ‘slow turn’ mode, where it just turns the clothing over every 5 seconds or so to stop creasing.

* Notifies me when I should run the maintenance cycles to keep the machine clean

* Notifies me when it needs a software update, which I can manage from my phone.

Do you need all these things? Of course not, and I thought I’d never go for a smart appliance, but I am absolutely a convert.

[1] https://www.miele.co.uk/product/11576550/wt1-washer-dryer-wt...


OK I'll bite.

    Touchscreen or app control
Why does it need a touchscreen? Like cars, a physical knob and buttons are just fine. Why would I ever want to take out... Oh wait want to go back to another room to find my phone first... To then use the app to do what one or two turns of a knob and a button can do that are right in front of me the whole time?

    Notifies me thru the app when a wash/dry is complete (my appliance is in a utility room, so this is really useful)
Fair enough if you can not actually hear it from where you are. Not happened to me ever even with being upstairs and the thing in the basement but fair.

    Predicts when it will finish (and showing the time and which stage it’s on in the app)
Personally I couldn't care less about any of that information. Beep when it's done and even then I'll probably not go and do something about it right away since I'll be in the middle of a meeting anyway.

    Monitors its own progress and will inform me if it needs more time (like if the drying needs longer due to increased load size)
Who cares? Don't tell me when you aren't done. While it's working it's working. Tell me when it's done. Also see above.

    Allows pausing a wash so other items can be added
Which a button on the front can't do?

    Has detergent dispensers that are monitored and lets me know when they’re low. It also works out the right amount of detergent to use based on size of load and other info you give it (see next item)
Fair enough. The notification should be an LED on the front though coz I need to be there to refill anyway and the new detergent is parked right next to it too. Also: How does it figure out that this is a heavy duty cycle of muddy rugby shirts?

    Has a ‘washing assistant’ which is like an ‘install wizard’ where I select the types of clothing in the drum, its level of soiling, whether I want it dried or not, and various other features - it takes all that and works out the correct programme for the items (I can do this from my phone too - which is actually more useful than it sounds!).
Ah like that. Like turning the knob on "heavily soiled" instead of running me through a 17 step wizard?

    When the cycle is complete and it’s waiting for you to empty it, it goes into a ‘slow turn’ mode, where it just turns the clothing over every 5 seconds or so to stop creasing.
Fair enough but what does have to do with the new "smart device craze"? Washers have had fuzzy logic (think one of the original machine learning algorithms - or in new fangled "AI") to make sure your washer doesn't tip over while spinning. Miele might have invented that for all I know. And yes this is old stuff. That's literally how the prof introduced fuzzy logic to us in the lecture. And I'm old.

    Notifies me when I should run the maintenance cycles to keep the machine clean
Which an LED on the machine couldn't do?

    Notifies me when it needs a software update, which I can manage from my phone.
Which... Should be needed exactly never. If it wants to do this more than 0 times during me owning it I know what I'll be chucking out soon/never buying again.


Touchscreens are a pain. If I accidentally brush past the touchscreen on my Bosch washing machine during a cycle it'll pause or change a wash setting or beep and cause me to stare at it for a full minute wondering if I'm about to ruin my wool wash or send the thing into another dimension.


> > Allows pausing a wash so other items can be added

> Which a button on the front can't do?

Especially since, to add items, you have to be physically at the machine.


I can see how some of these futures are useful. Mainly detergent dispenser and notification. If you live in a large house and have ADHD...it's a must.


Maybe you can elaborate on which other features you'd find useful from that list and especially why. I really don't see it and find most of these obnoxiously unuseful.

To your given example: Not having to fill it with detergent every single time, sure I can see how that might be nice. Buy your detergent, dump a few liters in there and only do that again once some LED blinks that says "Add detergent" or something. How does a large house come into play?

Now when would a washer figure out that it needs more detergent? Probably in one of three cases: At the beginning of a wash cycle it might calculate that it doesn't have enough for this time. Don't start, blink LED that says "Add detergent". Or it figures out that it won't have enough after this cycle is done. Well, who cares, wait until I try to use the machine next time.

Or maybe it finds out in the middle of the cycle, when it no longer needs to feed any detergent but determined it's now "out". But it's still running (you know, rinsing, spinning etc). If an ADHD person gets a notification that the detergent level is low in the middle of the cycle while they're in the middle of a meeting or maybe finally got into some flow state and PING detergent is low: Why is that good? I'd rather just refill it when I'm out of any other context anyway and I'm trying to fill the machine and it won't start until I fill it up again. You know, like I also just filled it with clothes?


To have a detergent dispenser and LED light for that, the machine needs to have some brains in it. App or no app. I specifically said dispenser is the feature that I like, not its app integration.

ADHD comment was about cycle being done, not detergent. My washing machine is in the garage and there is no way for me to hear when it's done. Given that I do have ADHD, I will simply forget that I'm doing any laundry. Yeah, I can set a timer on my phone, which is what I do, but notification is more convenient.

No need to be such a Luddite.


As the original poster, I can say that it's my ADHD that made me go for a smarter machine. The amount of times I'd come back to my washing machine days later, after forgetting I'd put a wash on, was just ridiculous.

And, the fact it just works out all the settings before I get bored is good (previously I just used the same wash settings for everything, which meant creased clothes constantly - and not one pure woolen item survived its first wash!)


If your appliance has a network stack it's no longer dumb. Most major appliance brands are now selling wifi-enabled dishwashers with companion smartphone apps.


My washer and drier have mechanical 'egg timer' spring wound timers. I prefer something like that. Hell, I remember my microwave in college simply had two nobs, one for time, and one for power, and it was perfect. If I could find a high power 1200W version of that microwave I'd buy it today.


Buy something (semi-)professional like the Panasonic NE 1840. There should be smaller, cheaper variants. The NE 1027 EYG will most likely work for home use. Commercial appliances are made to last and then be repaired.


Panasonic NE 1840

first link i hit -- price was €3.552,56 Incl. BTW

meanwhile the local best buy is selling one on sale for $95 CAD. i'm all for simpler, knobs, etc., but that's a non-starter, and if i'm dropping $2000 on an appliance its going to be an espresso machine


Commercial Chef makes a 600W model (CHM660B) with exactly this configuration. Not what you're looking for exactly, given the power, but maybe helpful to others who share your sentiment.


Well you haven't been looking too closely then, because there are a ton of washing machines on the market that are WiFi-enabled and have apps.


There must be for sure, but I opened bestbuy and I can't find any on the first page[1]. There are always some buyer who are attracted by technical terms so there is some market for those.

[1]: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/washers-dryers/washers-washing-...


Maybe we're getting different lists, the 5th one down for me is a Samsung with WiFi

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/6416171.p?skuId=6416171


Where does it say that it has wifi? Smart is just a marketing term here.


It's definitely not just a marketing term..

If you follow the specs on that model - you'll see a, "Wireless Connectivity: Wi-Fi"

If you go to the product page on Samsung.com (https://www.samsung.com/us/home-appliances/washers/front-loa...)

"Smart Care - Easy troubleshooting from the convenience of your smartphone.* Smart Care interacts with your washer and dryer to perform an immediate diagnosis and offer quick solutions."

"* Requires Samsung Smart Washer/Dryer App. The Samsung Smart Washer/Dryer App supports Android OS 2.3.6 or later and iOS 3 or later for iPhone models. Samsung Smart Washer/Dryer App available in App Store and Play Store."


There is no "Wireless Connectivity: Wi-Fi" in specs at least in samsung's site. It does display the troubleshooting which seems something like QR for machine status, which I really doubt it will troubleshoot anything and it is just there for false assurance.


Yes, there is. On your link: https://imgur.com/a/O1zBuJW


You may be right, Best Buy says it has WiFi but it isn't mentioned in the manual.

Still, a bit further down the results this LG definitely does: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/6419621.p?skuId=6419621


First item on that link for me:

> Easy troubleshooting from the convenience of your smartphone.

You're going to argue it doesn't have network connectivity and circuitry?


It doesn't have network connectivity. And most of the time, it doesn't have additional circuitry which would cost the manufacturer money. Instead it's just a software gimmick to show status via app using something like qr of washing machine status. It's purpose is to save status light which were part of older models and it costed them money. It is just more smart marketed version which is dumb product overall.


Yes, it does. Click the "See all specs" button.

Wi-Fi Connectivity: Yes

https://imgur.com/a/O1zBuJW


Ha yeah I even replied to the wrong comment and accidentally replied to one that.. yup has WiFi and an app for it.


Soooo I made the mistake of assuming all the "Samsung bad" quirks had been worked out when I bought a set last year. Yeah, never again.

The microwave door handle just fell off at the 6 month mark. The repairman said the entire door needs to be replaced, since the handle isn't replaceable.

The "icemaker" in the fridge begin not working. Turns out, there is a part that is nothing more than a plastic icetray with a tiny electric motor on it, and it had cracked all the way through and was dropping water into the bucket, making a big ball of ice. That part costs over $100. It's an ice tray - a small one at that. It's primary function is you know, not cracking. It's now making weird noises and barely a year old, I don't expect it'll last long. Luckily I'm selling the house this year, I wonder if I should write in disclosures that "I bought Samsung. I'm so sorry."


Ditto on the fridge. Samsung one came with the house, it is the most awful piece of shit I've ever used.

The freezer door handle broke off. The ice maker encrusted itself in a ball of ice, which then got caught on the drawer when I opened it and tore the ice maker out. The rails on the freezer drawer are weak, so if it's completely full it sags and won't seal all the way. Everything inside thaws out.

The fridge occasionally won't maintain temp and I open it and stuff inside is basically room temp.

There isn't a single useful part of it that isn't fucked in some way or the other.

I genuinely can't believe they managed to screw up a refrigerator this bad. They aren't that complicated.

The handle breaking enrages me. Some moron decided to make the entire assembly out of metal, except the force-bearing part. Handlebar? Metal. Mechanism that the connector hangs onto? Metal. The actual connector that beats the force of opening the drawer? Couple of miles of plastic.

Whoever made that call needs a solid slap from one of those Icelandic giants


Ha! Same on the microwave door. All metal, even metal screws. But they are sunk into cheap plastic that just exploded one day when opening it. I've had 10 or so microwaves in my life, and never had the handle snap off one. Samsung managed to make one that does in under a year!


Yup, had the same happen with a 3-month old washing machine. I'm sticking to Bosch from now on.


In washing machines, there is also LG (Korean). And in Europe, Electrolux/AEG.


SpeedQueens are beasts if you can afford it and their interfaces are downright quaint compared to the smart-crap everyone else makes. They're essentially all made for commercial customers so they almost never break with regular household usage and parts are easily available for repairs.


I recently purchased a TC5 and really like it. You can actually get proper commercial equipment from them with some mild social engineering. They still manufacture washers that are purely mechanical:

https://speedqueencommercial.com/en-us/products/top-load-was...

I stuck with the consumer segment because I dont want to have a weird conversation if I need service. The TC5 is electronic control, but it doesnt have all the limitation crap that other consumer units do. No lid lock & 100% fill is pretty much all I ask for these days.


Agreed. This is what we settled on as well after doing some research. They also have longer than average warranties on most models.


I agree. We have a farm as well and Georgia clay, tractor grease, pebbles, a miswired 220 outlet (just popped a fuse...easily replaced), nails, and the occasional misplaced socket haven't broken it. Gets used 3-4 times daily. We also have one in the barn tack room that we wash horse blankets with. I love them.


Can confirm. Used a Speed Queen dryer for 5+ years now. Didn't find it to be especially expensive.


Loved ours when we had it, though it was a bit smaller than some other ones.


There are - but you typically can't go wrong with a Bosch (or Miele).

My Bosch is now coming up to 15 years old - I had to take it apart a year or so ago to replace the heating element as it finally blew, and the inside of the machine looked new. Spare parts are still available as well.


You can go wrong with a Miele. The repair costs and parts availability were atrocious on our Miele appliances after the five year extended warranty was up. I loved my Miele appliances until they broke. The glass on our range got broken and it was a 1650 dollar part to replace and required 300 more for a technician to do it. Same thing happening to our washing machine, speed oven, and dishwasher. The amount of money we’ve spent to repair them in years 6-9 (five year warranty, and they’re all 6-9 years old) has been exceptionally high.

Great products, but their after warranty service is so expensive they are often not even worth repairing, which makes their whole lasts longer pitch kind of mute. At that point they become just like every other luxury appliance maker. We were disappointed.

I’d do Bosch / Speed Queen if I had to do it again.


I like my LG TV and washing machine, but I'm not sure I'd trust them with a fridge. Is it better than Samsung's fridges?


I have all LG appliances. Washer & drier are 10+ years old, came with the house. Fridge, stove & dishwasher are newish (2 years old). So far they have been great. I really like the induction top on the stove, though having to match the pan size to the burner is a little annoying sometimes.


Can second on the washer and dryer. I've had mine for 3 years and it's been great. Only maintenance I've had to do is cleaning the filter on the washer. I have 3 dogs, so I was somewhat impressed it took 3 years to clog up that filter.

The smart crap even works reasonably well if you're into it. I used to work a 2 minute drive from home and would use the "wash/dryer done" push notifications to run home and swap loads over. Not crazy useful, but it worked and had a niche.


Yes.


And Miele. A bit on the pricey side but very solid gear.


Exact same thing here, had to call a repair service to replace a chip inside for $350 and now its been working fine for a few years.


So many washing machines of different brands have compatible parts. But honestly, I'm also doing the same. And after it's out of warranty, I replace the whole unit after the first non - trivial fault that I can't fix myself. That's how I roll with all of my appliances. I've got 10+ years out of my Siemens washing machine and dryer. Both died within a month of each other. I replaced the washer immediately with a Bosch but had a go at fixing the dryer since it was just a fried circuit board. Checked online, the board was €180. Screw that! Tried to get the board repaired to avoid wasting an otherwise working item, but after €60 and 5 weeks waiting, the repaired circuit board still hadn't arrived (lost in the mail?) and the weather had been awful for line drying. So I bought a Bosch dryer. This action promptly released the repaired circuit board from it's delivery purgatory. Gah, fucksake, etc. Lesson learned. (I gave the circuit board to a local repairman to appease the gods)

Now my Samsung refrigerator (a large double-door thing that we Europeans call "an American Fridge Freezer" has frozen up its condensation pipe twice in two months, so it does a little "fridge-pee" on kitchen floor every morning. This has happened about 4 times in the last 12 years, and I always plug it out, empty it, remove the inside and back panels, thaw the pipe, clean the evaporator and reassemble. Massive pain in the arse, but if I get 3 years out of it, that's worth the hassle. But twice in 2 months? Fuck that. New fridge please. (Which means spend enough time looking at reviews and specs to become a fridge salesman, and ultimately buy a Bosch anyway)


I don't even remember why but I am never buying Samsung again. Was it a TV I owned that died? Was it a washing machine that had some small failure and required a whole board to be replaced? I honestly do not remember but I won't touch their stuff.


Our Samsung fridge manual contains a paragraph proudly explaining that it'll automatically (and without permission) mesh network with any samusung TV it finds so that it join the a video feed of the inside of our fridge (and other info it gathers) with our TV viewing habits, and then send the result to marketers.

That's why I won't touch their stuff any more.


I have a fridge, oven and tv from Samsung (all bought in the last 24 months). None has a problem.

I absolutely vouch for their appliances, I did spend good time reviewing and testing the competition and the fridge is perfect.

Actually fwiw I have never had any issue with Samsung electronics stuff (also have a galaxy tablet SE 7).

Thought it was fair to counter such negative anecdotes with a happy customer.


I was a fan as well, until my Samsung TV broke, then my fold phone lost sound when open and the screen started cracking right after the warranty ( all known issues ). I complained to a few people and found they had issues with TV's and appliances as well. You do some searches online and there seems to be a lot of unhappy customers, but good to hear someone's investment is paying off.


You seem to drag quite bad luck then.

Neither my anecdotal experience which is worthless nor online data or reviews shows nowhere near such poor unreliability.

Hell, if your sample pool was meaningful the company would be long broke.


I bought a washing machine from them and it had continuous problems for several months, until I got a refund.

The technician advised me to buy from Miele, Siemens or Bosch, as Samsung apparently has lots of issues.


Printers Dishwashers Washing machines

The unholy Trinity of appliance hell. Every brand that makes these has issues. If you get 3-5 years of use out of any of them (post ~2005) you're lucky.

I'm firmly convinced that every washing machine or dishwasher brand just wants to steal from you


Not my personal experience but it helps to talk to repair guys.

I learned that a lot of machines break down because of the combination of low temperature washing and the types of soap/detergent people use. It clogs up the machines and without regular maintenance, the occasional hot wash or better soap, it destroys components.


Would love to know which soaps are good and which are bad, and also why hot temperatures help - I would have assumed that high temperatures stress the components more than low temperatures.


English is not my first language so this is going to be hard to get across.

Apparently low temperatures do not fully resolve the modern soap (which is thick and heavily perfumed), leaving behind a lot of residue. An occasional hot wash clears them.

I don't remember the name of the better soap, but basically what he says is that for clothes that are just a bit smelly but not really dirty/stained, modern soap is massive overkill. It also doesn't need all this perfume. Your clothes are fine smelling neutral, they don't have to smell like a day in the Alps.

Would really advise to talk to a local maintenance guy, they can probably explain it much better.


As a layman, my understanding is that soap (or other residue) builds up due to low temperature washing. High temperature washes break down the build up.

I believe most front loaders these days have both a self clean cycle (you're supposed to run it every month or two, it's basically an extremely long hot water rinse+spin that you don't add soap or put clothes in for), and a drain filter that should be accessible near the bottom front (expect black slime if you haven't cleaned the filter recently).

https://youtu.be/-v4QQcceoH0?si=yOqC6Wd9HPxQo5U9


Same with a dryer. We avoid Samsung for everything but TVs now


Why TVs? All the good panels are by LG.


QD-OLED beats LG panels on brightness without resorting to tricks (WOLED uses white pixels to increase brightness). Seeing them side by side with images of shiny metals such as gold, QD-OLED just looks far better.

There's a reason Sony use QD-OLED panels in their top-of-the-range TV's.


Sony are actually dumping QD-OLED for Mini LED for their top-of-the-range TVs in 2024, because they don't think QD-OLED is bright enough either, in the context of new 4000-nit mastering monitors.


Sony is quite solid as well and if you don't connect it to the internet it's one of the best "dumb" TVs.


Aren't "Sony" panels rebranded Samsung (and sometimes LG) panels?


I think virtually all high-end OLED panels are made by either Samsung Display or LG Display.


Sony uses LG panels for their high-end TVs, but with custom image processors and heatsinks that are pretty nice.


Sony uses Samsung QD-OLED panels in their top of the line OLED models. They then use LG W-OLED to fill out the rest of their lineup.


Samsung TV is definitely a "Smarter" TV, compared to SONY. lol.


Because Samsung TVs deliver 90% of the quality at half the price. There's a reason basically every single major TV reviewer put the x95c as the TV of the year in 2023. LG and Sony eke out minor quality victories at massively increased prices. I do miss my Sony up-scaling quality for the odd old show I watch. The Samsung is noticeably bad here.


Funny, from my experience, over here (Europe), Samsung TVs tend to be more expensive than LG TVs.


If I could have purchased the LG G3 77" around Black Friday timeframe last year for cheaper than the Samsung I absolutely would have. I really wanted to go with the G3, but was around a $1,200 difference that was hard to justify for the bump in quality.


At least a few years ago, it was cheaper for me to buy an 55" LG OLED TV than a comparable Samsung model in the US, and that was factoring in the Samsung employee discount I had at the time.


I don't get why people bother posting anything to Facebook, when it can just flip a switch and kill a 100k strong supposedly fairly useful "forum", because some CEO dislikes having a contact info public, or whatever. So much wasted effort.


They don't know any better.


I had this problem with their TV as well. They sold this Samsung One box with it which completely replaced the HDMI out on the TV. Of course the software on the box then failed leaving the TV functionally useless for anything that didn’t use WiFi.


I just replaced our samsung fridge after catching it being over 45F for over 24 hours for the second time in six months.

Absolutely junk and dangerous. Could have made us sick if we hadn't paid attention to it.


Can I ask how you checked this?

We suspect our freezer is oscillating from freezing to not freezing, and I'd like to get an idea of the variance of temperatures over a 24-48 hr period.


If it's a freezer, put something heavy-ish on top of a thin layer of ice. If it sinks below the ice, then you know it's thawed.


I love this way of thinking. Low tech, infallible.


I bought an analog fridge thermometer and an alarming digital thermometer.

The defrost cycle would set the alarm off but the analog thermometer would not move above ~40F

So once it alarmed I watched the analog thermometer go up above 45F and stay there for hours. The back of the fridge was freezing over and preventing the fridge from working correctly. I bought the repair kit from the recall / service bulletin a couple years ago so that bought me a year or so of continued use.


You can get a dumb thermometer that tracks min/max temps.

This has come in useful for me a number of times: https://mondiproducts.com/product/mini-thermo-hygrometer/


> We suspect our freezer is oscillating from freezing to not freezing

That's how no frost works by blowing the cold but moisty air inside to the outside, this indeed raises the temperature briefly in the freezer.

But this only can become an issue if you're opening the fridge so many times a day.


> I don't trust samsung for anything

Funny thing to say on a tech site but, of course, not everyone cates about hardware. Who makes better RAM than Samsung? Micron?


Had my vacuum and washing machine for about 2 years. Zero issues and both fantastic items


I think is more a "Samsung" problem then anything else other than the slowdown in consumer appliances. Not really a chips problem by itself, which becomes a problem since they produce a lot of chips for their own appliances ( which had been developing a reputation for being over-complicated dogshit trash that breaks in 2 years or less ).

The real trouble ( and opportunities ) will arrive when all those new fabs come online in the next couple years.


Samsung & Intel getting hammered, AMD & NVIDIA riding at their highest. Wild world we live in.


Samsung just happens to be in commodity chip making. Don’t worry, the chip bosses will get together for a bottle of Soju, do some racketeering, SSDs and RAM will be expensive again but profits are going to be back.


SSDs are already spiking. A 2TB Samsung Sata3 ssd went from €120 in October to €170 in December.


So I'll just wait till they're 100..


Maybe I have been too obscure in stating what’s going to happen: the oligopoly of SSD/RAM makers will collude explicitly or implicitly to cut production and raise prices. Because right know they are making a loss selling you a SSD, all of them.

This is a cycle we have been through at least twice now.


Well, they pretty much announced this months ago. The cycle continues as usual.


Intel up 65% this year. Not too far from their all time high now.


Looks like the all time high closing price for INTC was 73.94 way back in September of 2000. It's gotta go up about $26 to get back there - it's not close.


I think they did several stock splits, and this time period was one of them


are your numbers right?


Going by the google chart for INTC. It seems clear that it's in the $70s - the point being that we're a long ways from INTC being in the $70s. (someone below saying it got to $75 and change - maybe that was an intraday high, not a closing high?)


I'm seeing 75.81


Was that the intraday high? I'm not seeing anything that high on the google stock chart for INTC, but I can't seem to zoom in on that particular section of time to see if there was a small spike.


If you look at intel history, they bounce like crazy.

That said, I saw they were low and picked up a couple grand of intel in my playing tfsa and it’s been happy.


Been holding intc since 1997. Never sold during the early 2000s just rode it out. Probably gonna start cashing out this year or next as part of early retirement before hitting my IRA since the intc was bought post tax.


Nvidia just happens to be making mining picks during a gold rush. They also happened to be making mining picks during the previous gold/silver rush, mostly propped up by ETH PoW algo.

It's a wild world, but NVDA also happened to be an extreme outlier in terms of hitting 2 gold rushes in a row.


"Just happens to be" is doing a lot of work here. Nvidia has invested billions of dollars over the past ~2 decades to be in the position they're in.


I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have.

- Thomas Jefferson


Arm is also killing it and at a high.


That's what happens when you spend too many decades making crummy products.


Not surprising given their behavior. Intel stopped innovating around the time ryzen came out. Ryzen itself was an innovation. When was the last time Samsung innovated anything? Quantum dots are a revolution but not related to chips.


>When was the last time Samsung innovated anything?

Ehm...... You may be using their DRAM or NAND.


& Screen tech, possibly camera sensors/lenses — going beyond the original scope of the post, but still.


…okay well besides all that, what have the Romans done for us?


Anyone that's owned both Samsung and TSMC fabbed chips in phones in the past 5 years just knows the Samsung ones run hot, are inferior to TSMC. They are the company you fallback to if you can't get it done on TSMC due to shortages.


I am sorry but that is incredibly simplistic view. Yes TSMC is better but this is a winnner takes all industry. Samsung has other problems since its its own customer for chips and has fingers in many other industries. It is still a wonder that they are basically the 2nd best fab in the world.


Are you basing that on two phones you owned? Is there data out there?



> He noted that the chip sector is recovering at a slower-than-expected pace because the growth of shipment and prices centers around a few high-performing semiconductors at a time when overall demand for electronic devices remains weak.

Ok, so was the demand higher during Covid and the market bounced back to normal?


I'd rather say the market has issues thanks to inflation caused by the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the resulting interest rate hikes. "Luxuries" like TVs and phones are where people save the most when their economic future is uncertain.


Stop trying to blame things on Russia-Ukraine: high inflation was always foreseeable as the end of a decade of artificially low US interest rates; here's nytimes.com from 4/26/2018 "The Era of Very Low Inflation and Interest Rates May Be Near an End" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16934387


The R-U invasion was undeniably the event that set off the explosive rate hike that was enacted as a counter towards the exploding inflation which was directly caused by the invasion skyrocketing electricity and gas prices.


You know that inflation exploded back in early 2021, already.


I feel like I've seen this headline several times over the past couple years. Are there any profits left to further decline?


I don't understand. Two years ago there was an outcry about chip shortage, car manufacturers forced to produce cars without luxury options requiring chips, appliance manufacturers trying to re-engineer their products around less deficit chips. And now this.


Will it translate to lower phone prices? Just went to Rio, now need a replacement phone:)




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