For real mountaineering equipment PFAS shouldn’t matter. The problems is everyone thinks they need mountaineering gear to go for a walk in a light drizzle.
arcteryx is not only a mountaineering brand. they produce non-mountaineering "urban" and commuter gear, and have the veilance line as well. these items are probably much more widespread than the mountaineering gear and i don't see the problem with it
It’s pictures of people skiing helicopter accessible back country and hanging off an ice wall in crampons.
And all of their lifestyle adjacent segment exists under that umbrella.
You don’t need PFAS gear while walking around town because you simply don’t need your fabric to vent extreme moisture build up to prevent death from hypothermia like the people in their marketing copy.
Really makes you wonder how Hillary trained on Federation Peak and the Western Arthur Range in Tasmania, Fiordland on the South Island in New Zealand, then climbed Everest without PFAS gear.
I'm not sure what your point is here, I looked at the veilance line and the examples I saw had (probable) PFAS synthetics mixed in with natural fibres, eg:
FRAME SS SHIRT MEN'S
Refined short-sleeve tee in exceptionally soft, breathable fine-gauge Merino wool jersey fabric. $250.00 AUD
(Note the .AU in URL - I get redirected to .AU being in .AU and not using a proxy)
Ultra-fine Merino wool yarns bring naturally soft comfort and are known for odour resistance, temperature regulation, and moisture management. A nylon core adds durability.
The 'nylon' core is likely treated with highly fluorinated PFAS chemicals to make it waterproof.
Merino wool on it's own is lightly water shedding, especially the ultra fine fibres.
It's all new to me to be honest - more than a decade back I worked with locals here to introduce laser grading on their merino wool sorting and feedback into breeding for finer wool grades, living in an agricultural district a great deal of my clothing comes from local looms and tailors - bolts of cloth for grading not mass markets being used by locals to not lose skills - no nylon or synthetic additives.
PFAS are only used on outside (shell) layers in outdoor gear. It would do nothing on a wool t-shirt like that, you need a solid nylon barrier shell, which is then coated to make the surface hydrophobic so the water beads off.
Most consumer merino wool nowadays contains nylon because it makes it more durable- ultra soft merino wears out and develops holes rapidly without adding a small amount of nylon “scaffolding” which adds strength and chafe resistance. When merino socks first hit the market, for example, they would sometimes only last a few days of hiking… nowadays a nylon wool blend sock will last years and years of hard use.
These layers are not designed to be waterproof or hydrophobic- the opposite actually, they are designed to absorb moisture so they are “moisture wicking” keeping the skin dry.
Cheers - I wasn't sure why you raised the veilance line specifically, whether that was an example of PFAS (in the nylon) or not (PFAS free) - the landing pages here in .AU didn't make any specific mention either way and the link you gave got redirected to a country specific (Australia) variation .. so I was literally unsure if we're "on the same page" :)
Everything waterproof will be worse to some degree, but that's okay. We learn to make this trade-off all the time; can't fight the physics of elements.
The more interesting area is in military applications, because China will continue to utilize PFAS technology and that gives a huge advantage in many areas.
I wouldn't be surprised if PFAS are being replaced by more than one chemical based on application, but specifically for the membrane layers, there's this:
> That Hail Mary thrown out by Gore-Tex turned out to be ePe (expanded polyethylene): a new durable, waterproofing membrane that is just as efficacious at repelling water as Gore-Tex's original ePTFE formula — yes, that's short for Expanded Polytetrafluoroethylene — but without fluorocarbons.
Sure ... "uranium" without the radon gas breakdown production, heat generation from steady persistant radiation, without an isotope that can be used in an atomic weapon, etc.
All that aside .. just like uranium.
Oh, except it's not a natural element like uranium that's been present as part of the earth for 4 billion years, it's a synthetic first created here by humans somewhat more recently.
But sure. Just like uranium.
The polyethylene family is not like the PFAS family being discussed here - the biggest environmental issue with polyethylene to date is that it requires the introduction of specific bacteria in landfills to make it degrade. It does seem that it can be treated to recover usable oil .. which is either a pro or a con - but no known health issues (unlike, say, uranium).
So your comment boils down to "magnitude is irrelevant".
By your logic (if you can call it that), there's no point in saying arsenic is more dangerous than milk because "swap out the units and you're describing milk".
Why study the effect of anything on anything when we could just swap out the units and everything is the same?
Hell, "swap out the units" and Earth is the same size as Jupiter, and it's just as hot as the sun!
DWR helps keep the garment's face fabric dry, which makes it feel lighter and warmer. This is in addition to a fully waterproof membrane like Gore-Tex that sits behind the face fabric.
DWR is also sometimes used by itself on some fabrics when the manufacturer wants higher breathability than you can get with a membrane, but still want a bit of weather resistance. A popular example from Patagonia would be the Houdini Jacket.
Gore-tex only works if also coupled with PFAS DWR coatings on the outside. Otherwise the “pores” are clogged with a sheet of water, and cannot breathe.
This is the proper answer: when water soaks the outer (non-GoreTex) layer, it doesn't breath anymore. One of GoreTex's fixes for that was to introduce jackets that don't have the outer (or inner) layer(s). It's just one big sheet of GoreTex "laminate" without being laminated to anything. "GoreTex Shakedry" is the search phrase you want, though they don't make the jackets anymore (because aforementioned "forever chemicals").
It's unfortunate, too, because the Shakedry jackets are what Gore has been promising for 50 years: waterproof yet breathable. I have one, and I am going to be very sad when it gets retired. Packs small, completely waterproof (I've used for 50 mile running races and stayed bone dry), yet breathable so you don't stew in your own juices (see "50 mile race" above).
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jan/26/water-re...
Drinking water also needs to be cleaned up:
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/30/pfas-and-lead-lurk-in-us-dri...