I don't know why the author is so hung up on NDAs. If my housekeeper was posting pictures of my house on social media while cleaning I'd be pretty pissed off about it. And if I asked them not to do it it wouldn't make the work "top secret". Agreements to keep the job confidential is standard when dealing with any public figure due to the public and media attention it brings, and this very journalist is a prime example of that.
There's a difference between "taking pictures of my lived-in house and putting them on social media" and "you cannot discuss anything, at all, with anyone, about this construction project."
The author quotes someone in construction who is familiar with high end work who says it's extremely unusual to force everyone to sign NDAs.
Couple that with the scale of the project? 1,400 acres is two square miles. That's a quarter of the size of the largest town on the island.
Interesting that none of the comments so far have said anything about one of the primary points of the article - not just the nature of the bunker, but the impact on the locals. It's not insignificant that Zuckerberg is building a little fiefdom in a place with an infamous history of exploitation by powerful outsiders. The story of the guard who died on the property and whose family had trouble getting information about the circumstances of his death is emblematic of the issue: you push your way onto this land and fail to integrate peacefully with the people already living there. It's not right.
I live in Kauai, a few miles from him. I know people who have worked at his property too.
Right now on the North Shore there is Mark Zuckerberg, tons of wealthy people moving in, AND a giant mega resort called the 1 Hotel Hanalei Bay all putting strain on the economy and ecology.
I am still carrying through with my vision of a better world. It started back in 2010 when this account was created. I was laughed at then for wanting to take on Facebook. I never quit and kept learning this whole time. I am close to Mount Doom now, Ring is still in tact. I am a little beat up after the Maui fires and that I had to relocate to here but I'm still going.
As other commenters have said, it's far from top secret.
A few years back, my wife and I went on "his" beach via a long, windy, overgrown public access path[1] and had a large, sandy beach to ourselves with nobody else within sight. At first, we had security from up on the property watching us from afar, but they got bored after a while and left us. Or they figured we weren't a threat. We spent hours there.
Hawaii doesn't seem like an ideal place for this type of "survival bunker". The area still sees volcanic activity, and the islands are small and probably will get hit hard from things like tsunamis and rising sea levels.
On the other hand because it's on an island far away from the mainland continents it will probably be good for a zombie apocalypse scenario, provided none of the locals get infected.
>Hawaii doesn't seem like an ideal place for this type of "survival bunker".
It's probably the best choice on US soil. Most physically isolated (significant) plot of land on earth. If the airspace shuts down, that's it. No one in or out. It's a 3 week boat ride to the nearest continental shelf. Also happens to be defended by over half the Navy's nuclear carrier and sub fleet, and multiple divisions of Army/Marines.
It's a fancy resort house on a fancy island. Hardly the first of its kind. I have no idea why journalists keep hyping the "doomsday bunker" angle so much. Heck having basic off-grid facilities is logical these days in any new construction if you can afford it.
From TFA: "The property, known as Koolau Ranch, will, according to planning documents, include a 5,000-square-foot underground shelter, have its own energy and food supplies, and, when coupled with land purchase prices, will cost in excess of $270 million."
It's not hard to see how journalists -- anyone, really -- could conclude that Zuckerberg is building a doomsday bunker.
I don't think that the reporters have ever dealt with high security requirements. Things like safe rooms, underground evacuation routes and multiple secure egresses are not that uncommon for high net worth individuals.
Some people have security teams they pay millions of dollars per year for, who ensure they aren't kidnapped, injured or otherwise harassed.
> Things like safe rooms, underground evacuation routes and multiple secure egresses
> Some people have security teams they pay millions of dollars per year for
I mean you're not even wrong? This seems to reinforce everything TFA said about Zuckerberg's $250 million island compound with 5,000 square foot underground living quarters being a "survival bunker."
There's a difference between "if we have intruders or there's a natural disaster we have a safe space to shelter in" and "omg Zuckerberg is preparing for the end of humanity!!".
I'm curious of the challenges in designing and constructing such a compound. For example, the limited access to resources needed to maintain the compound (air filtration, waste recycling, electrical components, etc.) would have to be baked into it's design somehow.
You are making the assumption it is for long term habitation, which might not be the case.
For long term habitation, you would solve it like any other engineering problem. How many people do you need to support, against what threats, for how long and what safety margins do you need.
Air is a solved problem, you either pull/push from the outside environment and filter on its way in (open circuit), or you treat the air (closed circuit). Waste goes into a leech field or is incinerated. Electrical is generated / stored onsite or powered externally.
Volcanos and Tsunami concerns are basically irrelevant. The last volcanic eruption on Kauai was 400,000 years ago. Major Tsunamis seem to hit Hawaii every few hundred years, but damage only affects a small part.
Maybe not ideal, in the perfect sense, but not bad at all.
This applies to just about every new house build in the country these days with the amount of NIMBY control most areas have. I can tell you that in my city nothing gets built without political networking
Unless he's bringing a private army with him everywhere, any collapse-type situation is going to see this palace swamped with thousands or tens of thousands of scavengers. I gotta admit not understanding the bunker thing unless you're on an island[1] or keeping it a secret. You billionz would be better spent reinforcing the locals' civilization and making them your buddies with beer and little shinies- the feudal model.
[1] Kinda. That won't be permanent, either. Scavengers have taken to the high seas countless times throughout history. Hell, the Philistines! Same deal.
"New Zealand, considered by some to be the ideal place to wait out an apocalyptic event, is now riddled with bunkers for the tech elite. Recently reinstalled OpenAI CEO Sam Altman has an arrangement with Peter Thiel, first revealed to The New Yorker, where the pair will take a jet to one of Thiel’s New Zealand properties in the case of an apocalyptic event. In his book Survival of the Richest, media theorist Douglass Rushkoff describes meeting with a group of billionaire preppers who bombarded him with questions about how best to configure their bunkers to survive the end times."
And who will do their bidding during / after those end times?
Won't this just devolve into a "live to die another day" situation? Most likley just a few days later?
I feel super skeptical about these "billionaire survival" compounds because they are going to require a lot of work for survival (read: hired hands). And where are these hands going to come from? If SHTF won't their pilots, drivers, security details, maids, cooks, gardeners, maintenance/mechanics crews, etc abandon them to tend to their own families? Or are these billionaires finding orphans who have no allegiance to anyone but the billionaires? Not to mention this is going to require some kind of "military style" command to prevent mutiny and ensure compliance under the threat of force. Sure, the billionaires can bury themselves in a comfortable (even luxury) bunker eating dehydrated rations for many many years, but I think I'd rather die that point. They can hide out on their yachts for about week before they run out of diesel and food, and then crew commits a mutiny.
It all seems like a really stupid expensive LARP or Howard Hughes style paranoia. IMO if SHTF for real those bunkers are worthless.
The biggest advantage of a bunker would be the first year of survival. You can comfortably wait while the population resolves itself, and later emerge with a group of trusted people (agriculturists, scientists, doctors) who are much healthier, loaded with weapons, and available to start a new society.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they had some algorithm that are constantly crunching through streams of global data looking for signals indicating that things are about to go bad. Thiel after all is an investor in palntir.
> And who will do their bidding during / after those end times?
Minions wearing electric shock collars.
"They knew armed guards would be required to protect their compounds from raiders as well as angry mobs. One had already secured a dozen Navy Seals to make their way to his compound if he gave them the right cue. But how would he pay the guards once even his crypto was worthless? What would stop the guards from eventually choosing their own leader?"
"The billionaires considered using special combination locks on the food supply that only they knew. Or making guards wear disciplinary collars of some kind in return for their survival."
My wife and kids may be buried under the rubble that was my home right now, but I make 3x the local median wage, so I better stay here an protect this guy i'm not allowed to talk to or interact with....
That is stupid. They wont even let the former owners in. If you are cynical enough to build a bunker you should understand basic concepts of loyalty and how armed guards behave when you stop paying them. Maybe they are so narcissistic that they don't understand that? Or the bunkers are for way less dangerous events.
Ye kinda meant that with stopped paying. But it doesn't matter. They could be paid in gold or canned food. It is the local police force and social cohesion that keeps the guards in check. You gotta be a warlord right now to expect to just show up and be in command. Or surround your self with friends, neighbours and relatives.
Feels weird to single out Zuck here. Hawaii is home to a ton of other wealthy elite compounds. Oprah's on Maui is nearly the same size. And Larry Ellison owns the the entire island of Lanai.
Just because it doesn't talk about everyone that builds shelter to fiddle while the world burns, doesn't mean a single article isn't worth while. But if you want, here's a Douglas Rushkoff article about the trend. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prep...
My favorite quote, “How do I maintain authority over my security force after the event?". These oligarchs even talk about trying to control people with food or maybe bombs on their necks.
Jesus. Maybe don't be an antisocial dick your whole life, and you wouldn't be in this mess.
>These oligarchs even talk about trying to control people with food or maybe bombs on their necks.
I assume this is what you're referring to?
>The billionaires considered using special combination locks on the food supply that only they knew. Or making guards wear disciplinary collars of some kind in return for their survival. Or maybe building robots to serve as guards and workers – if that technology could be developed “in time”.
>The door in the underground shelter will be constructed out of metal and filled in with concrete—a style common in bunkers and bomb shelters.
There's some neat details in this. Really curious how a door like this opens. And curious about the purpose/logistics of a 320,000 gallon water tank. If you have independent power you can just pump well water or filtered ocean water, yeah? Though maybe "external water sources are irradiated to an extent that distillation/filtration are impractical" is part of the design spec...
It's utterly moronic. Those bunkers and bomb shelters are made to withstand air raids and nuclear bombs, not ground assaults. There is zero chance anyone is spending any resources on bombing a tiny island with a population under 100,000, but those locals?
The first thing those locals are going to do if society actually breaks down is find those water and air intakes (that they built!) and shut them down. The latter by lighting a garbage can full of plastic on fire and flushing the inhabitants out. If they actually have an active life support system with CO2 recycling, the locals will just destroy the bunker from the outside because... well... we've been quarrying giant blocks of rock for thousands of years. It's not that hard when you've got unlimited physical access. Even the steel door is a minor barrier when you don't have fortified towers or parapets to defend from.
The question is whether the island has enough explosives on it or whether the locals would have to boat over to a bigger one to borrow some. If not, a cheap jack hammer would make quick work of the bunker but even if they were reduced to wood fires and a single pickaxe it wouldn't take more than a few weeks to pick the structure apart using prehistoric techniques: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-setting
If it's just a standard blast door, captured hinges with grease. You just pull it open, and a cam pulls it closed tight. If it's a sliding door, you can use bearings, cams and screw gears. For very large doors that swing open they'll still use captured hinges, with hydraulics to actuate it, but humans can still close it themselves.
> And curious about the purpose/logistics of a 320,000 gallon water tank.
The same purpose as towns that have water tanks. You'll still pump water into the tank slowly, but you need a much smaller pump capacity to slowly fill it. And it's way more efficient to distribute the water using the force of gravity; it would be very difficult to distribute lots of water at the speed needed to maintain adequate water pressure. The tank's excess capacity allows you to service peak usage easily, and operates in the absence of electricity. Work smarter, not harder.
I find the amount of people calling this a hit piece odd. Does every article need to talk about every bit of information related to the subject? Yes, it's important to give context that he's not the only one building compound(s) like this - but by the same token it's very common for articles to do a deep dive on one subject.
I just don't understand the logic. Do people really think they can isolate themselves in a huge personal vault, probably with 10-20 servants and their families who are needed to run the thing? What's the endgame? What kind of society would they build there? How fast would this little monarchy fall apart? Not to speak of how such a compound would be a glowing target for the population of the island, but maybe scavengers who possess boats or aircraft. The Expanse series had an episode that showcased this when Earth was hit with a meteorite.
Yea, this is the big flaw in the Preppers' thought process. If the shit actually hits the fan, as they say... a lone family defending their remote land with grandpaw's shotgun is not going to win against even a small band of armed marauders. A rich guy living in an underground bunker with servants is going to last about as long as the servants take to realize they can just gang up and take the compound over. Your off-grid solar panels and stockpiles of food and water don't stand a chance against the local warlord who wants to just take it.
Why do you think his goal is to isolate himself, or build a doomsday society? I you consider it to be an expensive villa for a guy which has reasons to be afraid of kidnapping, and rich enough to make his safe room really big, then all pieces fall in place neatly.
I think its the cliche "man cave" taken to the extreme. Talk to most guys and they too would want their own bunker. Look at all the popular videos on Youtube, titled "I built my own bunker"
Sure, why not. It seems reasonable to me. Of course the chances depend on the type and scope of the disaster or situation you are using it for. It is probably great if there is another global pandemic, or civil unrest in San Francisco.
If extradimensional aliens are invading, maybe it wasnt soo useful.
I suppose it depends on the collapse scenarios it's designed to protect against. In a nuclear war, I doubt they'll be many left outside to challenge their little monarchy.
The kuleana rights backlash was pretty silly to anyone who understand how land works in Hawaii and isn't trying to take a bad faith swipe at Zuck. It's a standard practice when buying land and building property.
Hawaii is an unusual place in that it's not particularly left wing in certain ways - i.e. lower class communities of color tend to be unusually right-wing - but uprisings against perceived slights by the rich, especially rich mainlanders, are a cherished tradition. There's nothing Zuck can do with that property that won't trigger some kind of scandal.
If you are that rich and as long as you build it on relatively sparsely built area (so you don't waste space) I say let billionaires build as many compounds with bunkers as they want. At least their money circulates around the economy that way instead of sitting in some offshore account/shares.
A big compound also pretty much requires around the year security/crew/maintenance so it will very likely bring some local jobs after the construction too.
Reminder that Larry Eillison bought an entire Hawaiian island. Apparently that's normal, after Mormons acquired the land in 1854, later selling it on for sugar production, ranching, and growing pineapples. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanai
> he used money of the church but titled the land in his own name. When the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints found this out they excommunicated him, but he was still able to retain ownership of the land.
>> he used money of the church but titled the land in his own name. When the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints found this out they excommunicated him, but he was still able to retain ownership of the land.
That was Walter Gibson, not Larry Ellison. Ellison bought it from Dole, as they phased out pineapple production in the h1980s. Ellison owns 98% of the island.
> complete with plans for a huge underground bunker
If the world does end, and all that remains of humanity are the billionaires eating canned food down in their bunkers, and sleeping with their guns, it will all be quite hilarious.
Funnier still will be when they run out of canned food, and they fight one another for survival.
It's a pity no one will be able to see that. They should make the movie now.
