So I believe that civilian casualties are intentional, and all the talk of safe areas (with no clear indication of what these areas are) is just a sham.
Watch the full interview. They offer him many outs, saying that perhaps there is a language barrier, and that he's going to do no favours to his country by saying that. But he insists that it is exactly what he means.
I don't speak Italian so can't do that but regardless of you have to find a former ambassador to Italy then you're scratching around, he was looking out of his post before any strategy of this war was fought and Israel was using the containment strategy re Gaza/Hamas prior to Oct 7
Russia v Ukraine and Israel v Gaza are incomparable, except that they're both wars. A comparable war would be other counter-terrorist warzones like Mosul or Raqqa which in fact have much higher civilian death rate than Gaza.
And that's even taking the UNWRA/ Gaza Health numbers at face value, which somehow indicate zero combatants killed in airstrikes.
You are confusing reported and estimated casualties. The reported civilian deaths in the nine-month Battle of Mosul were around 10k. A later estimate put the total number of civilian deaths to ~40k.
The numbers from Gaza are reported deaths, and nobody is seriously disputing them anymore. They are pretty consistent with the claims Israel is making. About two thirds of them should be civilians. That means a bit over 10k dead civilians after 2 months. True civilian casualties are likely higher, but the situation on the ground makes reliable estimates impossible.
I saw some of the incursion footage. How many of the hamas troops in the October 7 incursion were women? 0, from what I saw in the footage the only women involved were isreali victims getting kidnapped. Mostly of the incursion was done by males clearly in their 20s/30s. Perhaps few 19+, but I didn't see any kids participating in it either.
Sure, there might be some women helping out, but we can say it is mostly men, and 99% of the women killed, and most of the kids under 17 are victims of IDF's indiscriminate bombing, paid by our taxes.
If you want to defend war crimes, keep on going, but I feel sick how some goons in the tech community are justifying the killing by saying a '11 year old' is probably a hamas terrorist.
If you want to keep the discourse HN-worthy then delete the last para.
But btw apparently cctv footage showed women and children participating in Oct 7 massacre https://freebeacon.com/national-security/children-as-young-a... (not checked site credibility but it's not the only place mentioned). Not saying that I (or Israel) would airstrike young teen's house because they joined in an atrocity but just addressing your claim that zero women/kids involved...
Regardless the footage shows many who are just as likely 17 or 18 which are counted amongst the "children" count in the reported death tolls when it's entirely likely that are are plenty of 17 and 18yo (and younger) fighters in Gaza right now.
Women (on average) are much less likely to be combatants or pose a threat, are physically more vulnerable, and (as the only people who can bear children) are more important than men for preserving the future of humanity.
The reason people think only 10,000 Ukrainian civilians have been killed is that is lowball number the UN made up to not offend and anger Russia and China.
It is estimated that 25,000-75,000 Ukrainian civilians have been killed just in Mariupol and surrounding areas.
percentage wise, Absolutely yes. Ukraine is 40mil.
If the current rate was sustained in the Ukraine/russia, we would have seen at least 400k death rates. The estimates are 10-20x less. (between 10 and 20k)
You lost the plot, when even a goon like Putin is starting to look more human and conducting a massive war with less civilian casualties.
"Intentional mass murdering of civilians" is what Palestine did to start this war in the first place. So even if Israel were deliberately targeting civilians (there's no evidence for this) they would still be on the right side of this conflict.
bruh.... this is clearly 'faschist' type of argument. "They deserve it". The dehumanizing of a whole population is just sick.
Last times this happen in europe were: 1) WW2, 2) The massacres in the Yogoslavian wars, and especially in Sebrenica which was a clear ethnic cleansning/genocide and the war leaders ended up getting convicted for war crimes and crimes against the humanity.
Benjamin Netanyahu is on the way to become the next Milosevic, a war criminal.
What a blatant lie. The Siege of Mariupol alone is estimated to have killed somewhere between 25000 and 75000 civilians. The UN's fraudulent claim that "only 10,000 Ukrainian civilians have been killed" is a blatant lie to keep China and Russia happy.
Any discussion about collateral damage should take population density into consideration. The population density of Ukraine is 63 per square kilometer. The population density of Gaza is 5500 per square kilometer.
Nope. There are isolated reports which are of doctors in Gaza saying they have a seen burns that they estimate to be white phosphorus but (a) it's their guess it could be from any number of munitions/explosives (b) phosphorus used legally in flares could cause injuries if they fall unspent (c) Gaza doctors like everyone under Hamas rule cannot speak freely to press.
The reports from Lebonon are isolated incurred that are highly inclusive too. Plus this accusation is used as part of the anti-Israel "genocide" narative that Israel simply wants to harm Gazans/Palestinians civilians, but why on earth even according to this beer particular view would it use white phosphorus as a munition in Lebanon?
We did give lots of aid to Ukraine and we somehow were able to have discussions about whether we should continue to do so, in a relatively civilized manner. [0]
Somehow, when it comes to Israel and/or Palestine, all nuance gets lost, my "side" is "right", and the other "side" is an unholy abomination, morally disgusting or some other thing without room for earnest discussion.
I'll let the rest of this thread speak for itself.
It's hard to look at the events of October 7 and not conclude that they are "unholy abomination, morally disgusting".
It may be that they were provoked by equally abominable behavior by the other side. I'll leave that to each person's conscience. But it's quite undeniable that at least one side committed unspeakable atrocities, and there's no merit in saying "Oh, there's no point in demonizing them just because they disagree".
This isn't a difference of opinion. There is actual violence going on, like real horror-movie stuff. It may be that both sides are demonic, but there's no way to make the case that neither side is.
