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IE8/9 are certainly much better but they still have a long way to go. Gradients are a pain in 9 and rounded corners behave in unpredictable ways in both 8 and 9. Font rendering in all versions of IE including the latest and greatest sucks too.

In general, though we do have to spend time tweaking things between Chrome, Firefox, and Safari, IE8 and 9 still account for a significant portion of time spent getting things to work cross browser. For me, that time is so significant that I too completely ignore IE unless someone specifically asks for support.

Point is, IE, even in its latest form, is still not at the same level as the competition. I'm aware of all the reasons why I shouldn't ignore it but I do so in protest, not laziness and I hope one day a significant portion of the design community gets on board with it. If the web breaks for IE users maybe then Microsoft will make it behave sanely and try to get people to upgrade. Though I must say that the one thing I applaud IE for is it's box model. It is far more intuitive than the official spec.




IE9 works fine with one caveat:

Live with the features that work properly. Don't jump on every new bandwagon like gradients and then go ape shit when it doesn't work.

To be honest, it's not like all that shit really improves a product if it does something useful already. TBH IE6 can shift out a product that improves lives and earns money fine without being a pain in the arse if you accept its feature set.


This isn't about bandwagons. It's about IE behaving so unpredictably and vastly different than all other browsers on the market. It's like IE never got the news that the browser wars are over and continues to implement the CSS spec whatever way it wants at times.

We already live with the features that work properly but why can't we criticize features that dont work properly? When a spec changes we can't expect old versions of browsers to support it, that's fine. But when a spec changes and a new version of a browser comes out claiming to support it but really doesn't then we have every right to criticize it.

When IE9 came out Microsoft raved about how advanced it was and how we would get to play with all the new css3 features, etc. but that wasn't true. It was a big leap forward from version 8 but still not up to snuff compared to other browsers.

We certainly can create products that are incredibly useful even in older browsers but it's ludicrous to say we should just live with the limited feature set of IE. we're talking about the web here. A place where technology moves so fast that paradigms shift in a matter of months, not years. When every other browser on the market has been reliably supporting X features for several years now but one holdout still doesn't implement it like any of the others at all I'd say we have the right to criticize it.

Your tone makes me out to be like someone who just discovered web design and is using it like people used to use the blink tag in the 90's. That's not the case. This isn't about bandwagons nor is about the CSS3 features I mentioned. I only used those because they came to mind first. I'm very aware of design elements that are overused and those that need to be used with caution. You need to remember that functionality is only a piece of the puzzle. Backend design and front end design both play critical roles in making the user happy. Good design is about surprise and delight and since most browsers support it, we should be able to use parts of the new CSS spec now but IE is still holding us back as it always has. There are good reasons to use these features and not all people who use rounded corners and gradients are using them gratuitously like you imply.

Here are my reasons for wanting to use them: I want to cut down on the use of images for design (I can literally cut 90% of my image use by using css3). I want to speed up page load times. Stop depending on JavaScript as much (related to load times too). Finally, I just want to surprise and delight my users. Give them a beautiful experience. What I build may do its job but if its interface is boring and a chore to use then I messed up my job.

So should we all just "support the working features" of the lowest common denominator despite the fact that there's a ton of great features that are widely supported elsewhere already? Please don't be a design snob and look down your nose and assume anyone using css3 is jumping on some bandwagon lest you miss the point entirely.


> So should we all just "support the working features" of the lowest common denominator

As the parent and a a person with 16 years (yes that many years!) of experience managing and putting together well known corporate web sites and web apps, I'd say that yes you should.

The web is about being open to everyone regardless of the technical limitations.


I'm confused as to how being a parent is particularly relevant, but anyway...

This particular application is aimed at a narrow category of professionals, none of whom are likely to be using IE, or at least tied to using it. It would thus seem like a bit of a waste of effort to support it, given that it's more troublesome to support than WebKit and Gecko, and also given that Microsoft has promised that IE's standards support will improve, so it'll probably just work on IE10 anyway.


Parent poster...




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