I'm not the person you replied to, but I'm now in my mid-30s and I too have written off having children for a number of reasons:
* Having and raising children is expensive (both financially and otherwise) regardless any factor(s). Any parent will corroborate this.
* I do not find life worth foisting upon a new individual; life is nothing but challenges and hardships. I refuse to throw a newborn life into this hellscape.
* Related to the above, I refuse to make my children be witnesses to my inevitable death. I am in that phase of life where I must deal with the eventual passing of my parents, and that is fucking hell. I do not wish this experience upon anyone, and to that end I refuse to have children because to do so means I wish this hellish experience upon them.
* Children as a concept is hypocritical: On the one hand I am responsible for their well-being and that implies I can and will and should have a say in their life; on the other hand they are independent individuals whom I cannot violate, and I refuse to impose my will upon them anyway because that is not my place.
* I find the entire notion of a family far too bothersome for my life. I do not need nor want a spouse whom I won't ever understand anyway and whom I will grow to resent. I do not need nor want children whom I won't ever understand anyway and whom will grow to resent me. I do not need nor want familial relations which will all be concentrated bullshit. I do not need nor want any of that noise in my life, I desire peace and tranquility.
> I am in that phase of life where I must deal with the eventual passing of my parents, and that is fucking hell
The life has a way to handle this: children. Not saying you should but just saying that having children makes passing of the parents a bit less hellish. Will not make it easy but children forces us to be in the present and in the local now and contemplate less about about the extended family or past.
Just to clarify: it will be extremely immoral and unethical to have children just to alleviate this. And damaging in so many ways. I am just presenting a side effect here.
> Having and raising children is expensive (both financially and otherwise) regardless any factor(s). Any parent will corroborate this.
I’m a parent, I disagree. I might have thought in my 20s that having kids is expensive, but in my 30s I make so much money that is not an issue. Buying a house, that is expensive :)
> I do not find life worth foisting upon a new individual; life is nothing but challenges and hardships. I refuse to throw a newborn life into this hellscape.
Have you spoken to a therapist recently? You might be depressed. From my point of view, life is beautiful and challenges make it interesting.
Implying that someone is depressed and need to see therapist because their life vision differs from your is extremely ignorant and offensive. Especially when original point isn’t controversial at all.
They didn’t suggest therapy because of the point about not wanting kids. They suggested therapy because of the point about life being nothing but challenge and hardship, misery, etc. I think it’s not controversial to point out that therapy might help with that.
You are rich enough that raising a child is no longer a major expense for you, is this not the exception that proves the parent commenter's rule, then? Most are not so lucky as you.
Appalachia is much cheaper than SF, so one can make less and still have a good time raising their kids. It's not about absolute income, it's about purchasing power parity between areas of a country or world.
> From my point of view, life is beautiful and challenges make it interesting
This is a very deep and philosophical question, I think its perfectly reasonable for people who are not depressed to still come to the conclusion that they don't want to create more life since life itself is too difficult.
Even in a best case scenario of being born to a rich, loving family in some prosperous democracy you still have to deal with yours and everyone you loves mortality.
I think there's another interesting issue that may be going on - people postpone having kids more and more, many start seriously considering it in their late 30s. That's an age where most people also start feeling the squeeze of midlife - ill parents you need to take care of, sometimes your own health starting to decline a bit etc. It's not surprising some people give up on kids.
> I’m a parent, I disagree. I might have thought in my 20s that having kids is expensive, but in my 30s I make so much money that is not an issue. Buying a house, that is expensive :)
You're contradicting yourself. I'm a dad of two. Kids are extremely expensive and the largest expense is needing a large enough house in an area with good schools (UK here). That alone adds extra hundreds of thousands to your cost of living.
My 2 cousins grew up in a one-bedroom flat of 50m2.
On the other hand, I would have wanted a larger flat / house even if I remained childless and/or single.
Schooling in the UK is indeed a fuckup of epic proportions that I luckily don’t need to get involved with, but homeschooling is an option, right? The alternatives are getting better and better, with improved technology etc.
I've spoken to therapists nearly my entire life (another expense you may be on the hook for as a parent, like my parents were), and no therapy or drug has ever been able to allow me to find any meaning in life. It's not a struggle I have any interest in passing down to another.
Which gets at a question I often have for those in these threads - what would you do if you had a child who was so depressed that they're unable to live independently?
Yes, it's quite apparent in peoples' art - from Voltaire's "Candide" to Rick and Morty, my favorite example would be when Morty says, "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's gonna die. Come watch TV".
When Douglas Adams said that the answer to life, the universe, and everything is "42", it was pretty obvious that he was saying that the entire question is just absurd.
Enjoying what time is left is indeed my goal, and perhaps what a stoic or existentialist would tell you as well. It has not been easy though.
Thank you for this response. Outlier though it may surely well be, I find it lovely in a way though I doubt any parent (and indeed most humans) would actually be able to follow through with the extreme example given.
I do not care about the future, I am talking about the here and now and I refuse to foist this upon a hypothetical child of mine.
My goal is to lead a peaceful, tranquil life and when the time comes for my passing to leave as little as possible behind in my wake. Ideally I hope to not suddenly die in a freak incident, so I can relinquish or otherwise destroy my personal possessions prior to my passing.
If nobody notices I ever existed after I pass, I am satisfied.
* Having and raising children is expensive (both financially and otherwise) regardless any factor(s). Any parent will corroborate this.
* I do not find life worth foisting upon a new individual; life is nothing but challenges and hardships. I refuse to throw a newborn life into this hellscape.
* Related to the above, I refuse to make my children be witnesses to my inevitable death. I am in that phase of life where I must deal with the eventual passing of my parents, and that is fucking hell. I do not wish this experience upon anyone, and to that end I refuse to have children because to do so means I wish this hellish experience upon them.
* Children as a concept is hypocritical: On the one hand I am responsible for their well-being and that implies I can and will and should have a say in their life; on the other hand they are independent individuals whom I cannot violate, and I refuse to impose my will upon them anyway because that is not my place.
* I find the entire notion of a family far too bothersome for my life. I do not need nor want a spouse whom I won't ever understand anyway and whom I will grow to resent. I do not need nor want children whom I won't ever understand anyway and whom will grow to resent me. I do not need nor want familial relations which will all be concentrated bullshit. I do not need nor want any of that noise in my life, I desire peace and tranquility.