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The Ashley Book of Knots (1944) (archive.org)
183 points by osculum 8 months ago | hide | past | favorite | 81 comments



What I love about ABOK is that, while it's exhaustive and technical, there's still a lot of personality in the descriptions and commentary. Not only in the chapter headings, but even the knot descriptions sometimes have random little anecdotes, and you get the sense that the author must have been quite a guy.

A favorite quote:

> The topsail halyard bend is said to be a yachting hitch, but it is possible that it has never appeared outside the covers of a book. It has one more turn than the studding-sail bend and this, like the second tablespoonful of castor oil, savors of redundancy.


The Marlinspike hitch is my favorite :) If you stick anything functioning as a marlinspike in there (stick, screwdriver, etc.), you get a great handle for pulling in tension. If you put a hook in there, you have a hitch onto the hook that can be released by slipping it off (and the whole knot collapses in on itself). If you stick the tag end one way instead, you end up with a great stopper knot (Oysterman’s Stopper Knot) that is triple the diameter of the cordage. If you stick the tag end in another way, you end up a Bowline—and it’s a whole lot faster tying it than the “rabbit-around-the-tree” method.


> a great stopper knot (Oysterman’s Stopper Knot)

Also known as the Ashley stopper knot! I've started keeping a short length of paracord on my desk to practice knots during video calls. It makes a great fidget toy. The Ashley stopper is what I've been tying this week and it's such a gem (but a little harder to untie than I'd like).

ABOK is the classic. But I was surprised to learn recently that it's not the final word on knots. Superior knots like the Zeppelin bend don't appear in it and there have even been useful knots invented since it was published. Geoffrey Budworth's "The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Knots and Ropework" includes knots that were invented in the 80s.


I did this during COVID lockdowns (I never did get locked-down, being medical staff, but I had plenty of boring moments with nothing to do otherwise).

I wound up learning 20, and one of the GPs challenged me to tie them all blind-fold. Which I did, and won a metre of liquorice!


How did you tie the liquorice though?


I was generous and there was quickly not enough to tie even a half-hitch.


Seconding the shout-out to Budworth's Ultimate Encyclopedia. Best knot book I ever had. Not as comprehensive as The Ashley Book of Knots, but an extremely clear & thorough survey of the field nevertheless. If there's one knot book to own, that's the one.


> I've started keeping a short length of paracord on my desk to practice knots during video calls. It makes a great fidget toy.

This is literally what I started doing like 6 months ago, and I went from knowing only how to tie my shoes to having a great repertoire of knots. It’s great to have a couple hanks of paracord in the car now to tie stuff down, and more versatile (and safer) than the bungee straps.


see also rok straps (https://rokstraps.com/pages/rok-moto) and ratchet straps, though neither are fun enough to involve knots.


> I've started keeping a short length of paracord on my desk to practice knots during video calls

What a great idea. I just started learning knots. What do you use to tie onto? Some knots require something to which to fix.


Not the parent, but I cut myself a nice stick, divided it into shortish lengths of three, probably about 20cm, sanded them down. Three sticks lets you practice a number of knots, and I stored them tied with two lengths of rope (the fantastic hitch, forget what it's called, but two of them are brilliant for bundling poles together).

Then I just carried that around in my bag, or in a drawer at work, and when the opportunity presented itself, I practiced.


Yeah, I similarly have dowels floating around my desk for tying hitches. But I don't have a good solution for practicing knots that are meant to be tied under tension, like the "trucker's hitch" family. I've been considering getting some small dock cleats and screwing them to my desk.


a plastic dock cleat hot glued to a piece of wood works pretty well and is fairly cheap


I've started the same habit. Practicing Chinese Button Knots today.


And here I thought not many people besides my dad knew what a marlin spike was.

If I had a nickel for each time I got to use the skill of 'how to splice and/or roll eyes in wire rope' he taught me I'd have three nickels. Which isn't a lot but its weird that it happened three times.


Looking at it today and I just realized it's a slipknot with some jammed in it to keep it from slipping. Kinda blew my mind there.


ABOK is wonderful. I have my grandfather’s copy, which is somewhat in need of a rebinding but otherwise in good shape.

https://www.animatedknots.com offers an app with some animations of knots that cites ABOK numbers and page numbers, and i have that installed on my phone.


> in need of a rebinding

Rebinding this particular book reminded me of an old coworker at Scout camp who did something neat where he completely unbound it, laminated each page, and then stuck it all in a 3-ring binder. It made it so the book would lie flat on any page, which is nice when you need both hands to practice a knot, and also protected it from messy 11 year olds. (He had another copy which he kept in pristine condition, as well.)


I love Grog's site. I wanted to buy the app but apparently my Android version is too new :(


Know knots or tie lots!

Knowing a few different knots for a variety of situations comes in handy. The right knot holds properly and can usually be undone when needed without having to cut it out.

If you're starting out then the square knot, two half hitches, taught line hitch, clove hitch, and bowline cover most use cases. And, yes, those are among the basic ones taught to Scouts.


The Klutz Book of Knots was one of my favorites as a kid, and cited Ashley throughout. Here's what it had to say about the square knot:

"But Which Knot Is Really The Best Knot?

A true landlubber's question, but one that is inevitably raised. The correct answer should be the responsible—albeit boring—"It depends." Are you knotting together sheets for an open-air exit from a burning hotel? Or are you tying up your hair?

But let's say you've really only got room for two or three knots in your long-term memory files. If such were the case, I could be forced to recommend the bowline, the sheet bend, and the clove hitch. The three of them are the class of the three primary knot categories—loop knots, rope-to-rope knots (bends), and rope-to-something-else knots (hitches). Between them, they should get you into most binds.

Incidentally, the opposite question, "Which is really the worst knot?" is far simpler to answer. As disillusioning as this sounds, it's the square knot, the most over-hyped, under-strength knot in creation. Clifford Ashley, the author of the definitive encylopedia on the subject of knotting, states that the square knot "...has probably been responsible for more deaths and injuries than all other knots combined."

The reason is that the square knot capsizes, i.e. it unties itself. A couple of quick tugs on the rope, or an inadvertant bump, and the honest square knot turns into thin air, an unhappy result that demonstrates the difference between a "strong" knot, one that weakens the rope least, and a "secure" knot, one that resists unraveling."

This was disillusioning when I first read it as an avid Boy Scout. Now I can't think of a more apt symbol for the Scouting program.


I have heard that the clove hitch isn't very good, either. That it easily comes undone with wiggling


See my other comment on this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37685921


A “round turn and two half hitches” (ABOK #1720) is what I’ve been told is a better alternative for tying fenders to a boat that will be left unattended


Some knots are only useful under tension; absent that, they can get sloppy without too much effort. I'd say the clove hitch is one such example.


But it can be fixed in that regard by turning it into a constrictor knot instead, IIUC.


if the clove hitch is tied near the end of the rope, you can take the tail and tie an overhand knot with it around the standing line to back it up


My personal list is the uni-knot, sheet bend(Along with the slipped and double versions), tautline hitch, alpine butterfly loop, highwayman's hitch, and clove hitch.

And of course the double slipped square knot. I always have trouble with it, the right over left and left over right steps slow me down trying to make sure I don't accidentally tie a granny. But once it's done it's really obvious to anyone how to untie it since it's a standard shoelace bow.

I think one of the coolest things is that most knots have a really obvious slipped version, once you know the base knot you can make sure it never binds on you.

I always hear the clove hitch is not the greatest though, so I'm never sure what to do. Gliepnir is my favorite replacement, but it's not easy to remember.


> the clove hitch is not the greatest though, so I'm never sure what to do

The rolling hitch [1] is a slight variation that works great as a drop-in replacement. For attaching a rope to a pole, I go as far down this list as is feasible and/or necessary:

- two half hitches [2] (this is actually just a clove-hitch around the standing end)

- round turn and two half hitches [3] (like the above, but a little more secure and it takes the load while you tie it)

- anchor hitch [4] (even more secure, but harder to tie under load)

[1]: https://www.animatedknots.com/rolling-hitch-knot

[2]: https://www.animatedknots.com/two-half-hitches-knot

[3]: https://www.animatedknots.com/round-turn-two-half-hitches-kn...

[4]: https://www.animatedknots.com/anchor-hitch-knot


My go to is the 'midshipmans hitch' with an extra half-turn at the end, dead easy and secure whenever I've used it https://www.animatedknots.com/midshipmans-hitch-knot


For some reason the idea of using an friction hitch as just a regular hitch when you don't specifically need adjustability never occurred to me.... I might just start doing this although I don't know the Midshipman's, just the Tautline.

I like how it doesn't wrap tightly around the thing, giving you some slack when you need to untie it, and a sudden load while tying won't make it constrict around an object, making it less likely to take an errant finger with it.


Thanks, that's really neat!

Round turn and two half hitches is really interesting because you don't have to relearn anything.

It seems to be "nooslike" similar to the uni-knot, which makes me wonder if just a slipped uni-knot (Maybe with a round turn?) Could also work?


I would suggest adding the sheet bend (ABOK #1) to that list: if you ever end up not having enough rope, you will want to be able to join multiple sections together.


Yea, another good Scout knot. While a square knot can do the same it can capsize under tension!


Pretty sure Ashley himself says the square knot should never be used as a bend, and that doing so has probably killed more people than any other knot failure.


Square knots used as bends have a tendency to loosen over time when used with rope that is not exactly equal in characteristics, especially when they are not under tension (or the line alternates between slack and taut).

I believe the US Navy recommends 2 bowlines over a square knot, but the sheet bend is still the gold standard.


a very simple knot that has been very useful to me and yet simple to learn is the - round turn and two half hitches knot. for tying a line or rope under tension


*taut line hitch.


Don't forget the Sommerville bowline. Easy to tie and won't collapse under tension.


I think this might be my favorite kind of nonfiction book. Truly the Bible of knots.

For years I have looked for a list of "Bibles" of their respective subjects, but have never found anything quite right.

Chapman's Piloting & Seamanship is another example that comes to mind.


It reminds me of the 501 Mechanical Movements type books, which are endlessly fascinating to me.


Maybe you can start that list, on GitHub or something like that, so people can contribute.


My understanding is that a lot of "knot culture" developed during the Nantucket whaling days. There were knots before, of course, but the variety and intricacy exploded. (a bit of a simplification of course, there are lots of cool Celtic knots and whatnot, too)

It was a somewhat special time, where you had a lot of relatively well-paid capable people stuck on a boat with nothing to do for sometimes weeks on end. Encourages some creativity, I suppose (: Scrimshaw is another product of that time — some really intricate stuff out there (eg: [1]).

For me, I feel like the bowline and trucker's hitch give you huge bang for the buck. Memorize those, and you can handle many things, with a bit of rope.

[1] https://modelshipworld.com/topic/27614-prisoner-of-war-bone-...


I’m sure knots were developed for whaling… but most were developed (as might be expected) during the age of sail and the British empire.


Tautline very useful, especially with tents.

But the Tarbuck is just that little bit better, and identically easy to tie (and untie).


i carry this book and a piece of string with me and try to tie various knots. very satisfying while i sit around.

i find it very difficult to remember how to tie a knot when not practiced.

i like the glue that the author recommends in the book for applying on string ends to prevent them from fraying, it's called duco cement -- comes in a green tube.

some of the knots i've remember off the top of my head: bowline, constrictor knot, alpine knot, truckers hitch, midshipments hitch.

and i'll end it with a fun fact,

The Midshipman's Hitch Knot is promoted by Ashley (ABOK # 1993, p 325) as the only knot to tie in the following unlikely but critical circumstance: you fall overboard and catch hold of the line which you have prudently left trailing astern and find yourself hanging on with difficulty.


When I was a kid on the gillnetter I'd read that book all the time and would practice tying some of the more elaborate knots. I wish I still had my dad's old marlin spike. Had it for years, with a wobbly old turk's head I'd tied on the eyelet. Gobbled up by the mists of time (an old girlfriend threw my shit out a dozen years ago and it was a casualty)


I often keep a short piece of paracord or nylon rope in my pocket for tying knots. It works well for keeping my hands busy. I'll often tie a chain sinnet, a series of half-hitches so that they spiral, a diamond knot, or just a bunch of other knots that I try to remember how to tie.

What knots do you tie when you're just trying to keep your hands busy?


Zeppelin bend and Carrick bend are my favorites. The knots I actually use the most in daily life are bowline and trucker hitch. I'm partial to constrictor knots as well.


Related:

Big knots discussion earlier this month:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37346115


A long time ago, I took the Sierra Club Basic Mountaineering Training Course (which was since abolished after some lawsuits!).

We practiced the bowline-on-a-coil and belaying someone on flat land, and then we did rock climbing, belaying each other.

I had a gentleman on the climbing end, who shouted "on belay" to which I responded "belay on."

Then he yelled "falling." I was sitting with my feet braced, and I'd practiced holding with my legs instead of my arms, so I was able to keep him from getting hurt. I guess nowadays I could monetize that, if I had it on video.


The risk with the Bowline is that it can work itself loose if it is repeatedly tensioned and loosened. It _definitely_ needs a backup safety knot on the tail.


Or tie it as a double round-turn bowline, with an extra turn for both the "rabbit" going around the tree, and for the hole.

In a previous job I had to constantly take my office master key out of my pocket and put it back. Before long I made a lanyard for it with a brass clip to go on a belt loop and a regular split ring on the other end, both attached with a normal bowline. After a short period, maybe a few weeks to a month, I noticed it loosening up. I retied it with double round-turn bowlines on each end, and it held together like that for years.


Saw this video on Knot Theory a while back — the developments in this obscure branch of mathematics have been phenomenal in the last century, with wide-ranging impact.

https://youtu.be/8DBhTXM_Br4?si=vDfNBPXpj4OMfLPY


Topology is super interesting. Thanks for the video!


I have problems with knots, I am terrible with them, despite having some books.

I think what I really need is a flowchart (what are you tying to what else? what kind of cordage do you have? what kind on the other end, if applicable?) with a list of knots at one end, with their various strengths and weaknesses.

The jargon is a bit of an issue, too.


You can make due with only a couple of good knots. Very short list: the reef knot (square knot, avoid the granny version) and the alpine butterfly (don't use reef knot for joining two ropes, i.e. a "bend"). The alpine butterfly is more useful to know than the bowline, IMHO.

If you want to expand your list a little, here are some additional useful ones: double fisherman's, adjustable grip hitch, sheet bend, trucker's hitch.

Edit: I suppose this is more useful with a little additional commentary. The reef knot is so common that you should know it and know how to avoid the granny knot and also when not to use it (e.g. as a bend). You can use the alpine butterfly as a bend and also for quite few other things. It is more versatile than the bowline (e.g. if you need a loop that doesn't slip) and works fine as a bend (very smiilar to the Zeppelin bend).


Right, but this isn't a what question, it's a when to do what question. I might know a knot, but I don't know when to use that knot and when it ought to be avoided. That's what I am getting at.

Even under the "bend" page in Wikipedia, sometimes the knots are merely described.


Be the change you want to see in the world ;-)

I think a flow chart of when to use a knot is a great idea! Please make it!


I would first have to know what I was doing. Which I do not.

I might be able to make the flowchart if I understood knots; I might be able to understand knots if I had a flowchart. If we had ham, we could make ham and eggs, if we had eggs.


If it's a safety critical situation, leave it to the experts/become an expert/try to make it so that the failure of your knot won't kill anyone/etc.

For non-critical use(In my limited experience, some of my choices are as much about ease of tying as actually picking the right one, some of these are things I've only used once or twice or never used for anything important):

If you want to tie two ropes together, use a sheet bend. or a double for more security, or the slipped version to be able to undo it. Add a stoper knot for even more security.

If you want to make a loop in the middle of a rope, alpine butterfly.

If you want to adjust tension, tautline hitch.

If you are tying thin spectra cord, or making a permanent attachment between thin cord and something else, try a uni-knot. Note that it's not actually considered the standard for tying to carabiners, but I use it sometimes(For non climbing purposes).

If you are tying a bundle together, try gliepnir or a standard shoelace knot, or a clove hitch.

If you are tying a rope to a fixed pole, try a clove hitch. It's not perfectly secure. Maybe try gliepnir too. Honestly bundles and hitches are the two uses I'm least sure of. There are apparently better things than the clove hitch, but it's easy and good enough probably.

If you want to tie something you can undo really, really fast, use a highwayman's hitch.

If you want to tie something someone else might need to untie, shoelace knot which is a doubly slipped square knot, it advertises visually that it's meant to untie.

Might want to just use a regular overhand though, the Ashley stopper is hard to undo.

If you want to cause a real nightmare for anyone untying something, or remove unwanted fingers by circulation loss, constrictor knot.

If you want to make the end of a rope not go through a hole, Ashley stopper. You can also use this, or just a simple overhand, to keep another knot from slipping.

If you want to do something involving climbing, do not listen to me, I know nothing about it.


I like to try to make up stories for them, so I don't have to rely on visual or muscle memory.


Knot theory in topology is super interesting and have very practical applications in the real world (protein folding, chemical structures, etc). Fun fact: Conway was involved in tabulating 11-crossing prime knots.

I found this veritasium video helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DBhTXM_Br4&pp=ygULa25vdCB0a...


Knot tying is amazing. After all these years it's still useful in everyday life. New knots are being invented... But the classic ones remain just as useful.

I like history, but I don't often encounter old technology with that level of modern relevance, so it really seems like something special. I'm surprised they don't make a bigger deal about learning them, like some people do about cursive.


I still have a copy I was given when I was a kid.

What's kind of amazing is that it's from when there were still a few commercial sailing ships around.


Clifford Ashley was one of the last marlinspike seamen. What an encyclopedic knowledge of knots. I pull my copy out every now and then and just sit and tie knots and/or share useful knots with my kiddo.


And the stories he tells about the origin of knots and people he learned them from are great.


Knots are shared a lot here. There are sites listing hundreds of them each with its own strengths and weaknesses and use cases. But is there any science/math to them? For example, if I want to have not with specific set of features, is there something like an algorithm to build that knot from scratch?


The math of knots is more rudimentary than what you're asking for but still fascinating!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8DBhTXM_Br4


Knots end up being the weakest part of the line. Whenever possible I prefer splices when heavy loads are involved.


Although this is a good one, there are other interesting books and resources on knots here: https://www.locserendipity.com/TitleSearch.html?q=knot


Doe anyone know how this compares to Knots Splices and Fancywork?

https://g.co/kgs/ciFr2n


Does it have an index pointing to each knot or categorizing them? It would be really nice to know which knot to use in each occasion. I couldn't find the index.


Anyone has a mobile app recommendation for knots? EDIT(ABOK -> Grog) has one but it's outdated and not available on my device.


I like Grog animated knots:

https://www.animatedknots.com/


oh. I said "ABOK" when I meant "Grog". It looks great but it's outdated.


How can a knot be outdated? Seems odd in a thread about 80 year old book.


Clearly we have higher performing knots which leverage modern material benefits for less slippage, total movements/tying time and complexity etc.!


The application and material of ropes has changed over time, specifically ABOK was published just before the advent of Nylon ropes.


The other decent one (Knot Guide) has now put their knots behind a subscription.


I just want to say that I enjoy and recommend Philippe Petit's opinionated Why Knot? book.




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