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Naturalistic psilocybin use associated with persisting improvement in wellbeing (frontiersin.org)
52 points by beefman 8 months ago | hide | past | favorite | 38 comments



What do they mean by “naturalistic” use?


They mean people taking it the way that they do, not in any kind of research setting.


They use this blanket names so you buy it without asking questions


> This prospective, longitudinal study comprised six sequential automated web-based surveys

Until we get proper controlled studies we don't need to talk about that imho


It seems to me that this kind of study is a necessary precursor to proper controlled studies, given the current legal restrictions of the subject matter.


There are already studies like this being run in the US. Check out MAPS.


Explain how we get proper controlled studies of a substance like this.


Run it in Australia, it's schedule was lowered so you can actually run studies on it. Here's one happening right now:

https://www.monash.edu/medicine/scs/clinical-psychedelic-lab...


Legal in Colorado now too. Although unclear if the Feds would intervene.


Zide Door, a church in Oakland and now SF, you can buy it over the counter.

I found out recently that they have 91,000 members, and counting.

There has to be a way, the cat's out of the bag and has been for years.


Spores have remained legal forever here in the states because unlike seeds, spores don't contain traces of the banned substances, and there have been legal spore syringe sellers and sterilized substrate-bag sellers etc. since the beginning of internet forums. With a little patience and guidance it's always been there for anyone wanting to try.

Or you could buy a book of mushrooms native to your area, identify the funguys, and take a walk foraging.


It doesn't matter. But self-questionnaires over the internet are just bs imho. That's not science.


What's the 2023 equivalent of the Silk Road? So many interesting developments in the world of psychedelics, still extremely illegal. Last time I had magic mushrooms, I ordered a box of dirt (with spores) online from a Dutch head shops. Surprisingly easy and quick to grow. That's more than 10 years ago, I doubt these grow kits are still legal.


You can still buy mushroom growing substrate (or diy r/unclebens) and buy spore prints in the US as far as I’m aware.

Whether you get put on a list to get a knock at 3am later… probably not unless you start selling grown shrooms.


See my other comment, this is all still perfectly legal until you combine the spores with substrate with the intent to grow the mushrooms. You can buy the spore syringes ready to inject into the pre-sterilized substrate bags. Open, inject, wait.


There are lots of people selling them on things like Facebook marketplace. Seems incredibly risky for them but who knows.


Risky for the seller, not as much for the buyer who only has to learn to say "no, I didn't order that" and not be pursuaded into saying "yes, I ordered that."

Simple as


In the Netherlands selling magic mushrooms is illegal since 2008 (after some incidents), but magic truffles can still be legally bought online and in shops. Buying spores and growing magic mushrooms yourself is still possible and completely legal for as far as I’m aware.


My observation after many years of being in these circles: mushroom use makes people happy in a "la dee dah" way and at the same time causes significant damage to people's ability to think skeptically.


any chance the correct dose of this becomes the new caffeine or coffee?


I do daily Tiger's Milk and Lion's Mane, which are synergistic with psilocybin, but you generally only do psilocybin to a threshold every 72-hrs if you're "dosing".

Honestly, while these things can help, they aren't cognitive panaceas. They won't teach you pacing or how to manage your stress, they're not substitutes for active improvement efforts, and you won't suddenly have better ideas.

I don't recommend them or discourage their use, but if they might help you realize that maybe you shouldn't be living in a way that required coffee all the time, that naps are natural and you can take them when you want and not be less of a person, or that maybe trying to fit your natural rhythm to something that doesn't suit you isn't the smartest way to live, then I'd say that's great but that you also don't need a mushroom to convince you of that.


I'm pretty sure set and setting are way more important factors than declaring 'n' is the right amount.

So, to put it bluntly no. It's not that simple or comparable and the study already shows it affects different people differently with some ending up resulting in a negative experience overall.

This is one of the key problems with the capitalistic approach to modern medicine - you do the trials, you get approval based on the majority result, Done. There's not much research into what doesn't fit and why it doesn't fit, because there's no money in it.

Yet all the end-users of the supposed cure that aren't in that majority actually end up suffering more because once you find out something doesn't work for you you get rejected by the system, or put on the 'try a different one' endless go-round. This is way more of a problem in mental rather than physiological health, because emotional states are much less consistent and harder to quantify than things like blood pressure or iron levels etc. etc.

That being said, if you do fit the majority then maybe you can just add it to your set of stuff you take.

One does have to wonder why we need to medicate ourselves to cope with reality rather than change reality instead. My gut feel is because its easier to understand/influence. Doesn't mean its the correct thing to do, its just something that is achievable and makes things better. Kind of like using humour as coping mechanism to avoid a situation.


“One does have to wonder why we need to medicate ourselves to cope with reality rather than change reality instead.”

A lot of our problems are due to self deception. One thing psychedelics are good for is being able to see through the lies we tell ourselves and face the facts about our behaviors.


>One does have to wonder why we need to medicate ourselves to cope with reality rather than change reality instead.

Psychedelic therapy can reveal things about your reality that you may have been completely blind to or unaware of, thus enabling you to change it.

To use these substances properly, it's not just about taking the substance and having an enlightening experience and then being done with it.

It's about taking what you learned about your reality, what you want to change about it, and then integrating/implementing that into your every day life in the weeks, months, and years afterwards. That's where the real work is.


> it affects different people differently with some ending up resulting in a negative experience overall

I mean 7% having a negative experience after a few months of use is better than coffee right?

I don't know coffee's stats but people that are co-dependent on coffee think its waaaay more normalized than it is. 17.5 drink decaf which is like 95% less caffiene, basically trace amounts


>Participants were primarily college-educated White men residing in the United States with a prior history of psychedelic use; mean age = 40 years. Participants primarily used dried psilocybin mushrooms (mean dose = 3.1 grams) for “self-exploration” purposes.

I think the participants already don't represent the everyday person or even coffee drinker, but I certainly don't disagree with your last statement either.


if the average person was accustomed to taking 3g of science grade mushrooms this world would be very different lol...oh no Mr. Dinosaur, I don't think that was a microdose!


> I don't know coffee's stats but people that are co-dependent

It's just "dependent" or "addicted"", codependency is something else entirely


the reason I used that word is because I felt someone else would argue about the words “dependent” or “addicted”


This is a good idea. If you are concerned about how people might object to the usage of one word, it is best to use another without looking up the definition. It’s a sign of a germane turgid intellect, heretofore.


Nah, while it’s good for mental health, it’s not a productivity enhancer. It can be hard to focus on complicated concepts or even recall facts like people’s names.


> It can be hard to focus on complicated concepts or even recall facts like people’s names.

Surely not with a micro dose?


Yes, even a small microdose can inhibit recall. That’s not to say it’s not worth the trade off.


If you drink coffee or take caffeine in little doses once every month I could see it happening.


Why is that?


Talking about psylocybin in terms of a daily dose is misguided in my opinion. It's not really something you would want.

I really look forward to more studies exploring use of psylocybin.


my question wasn't about daily dose, it was about cognitive utility. caffeine is seen as having increased cognitive utility

> any chance the correct dose of this becomes the new caffeine or coffee?


I see. My bad for thinking about coffee as the daily supplement.




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