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Lol, Russian invasion started in 2014


There was no shelling before the Russian invasion in 2014.


You mean like after the coup?


A Russian puppet was overthrown by a revolution of the people, and replaced by a democratically-elected president, followed by multiple successful elections, and the peaceful transfer of power from one party to another, over nearly a decade, and Russian apologists call it a "coup".


A coup sponsored by the US and orchestrated by Nuland with support of the U.S. state department.


Right, of course. The thousands of people gathered in protest in Kiev were all there at the direction of the U.S. State Department.


> Right, of course. The thousands of people gathered in protest in Kiev were all there at the direction of the U.S. State Department.

Quite a few were - we will probably get a good idea of the numbers ~40 years later unless the President at the time deems otherwise.

Do remember that Yanukovych's election was certified by international monitors. https://www.oscepa.org/en/news-a-media/press-releases/press-...

A significant fraction of Ukraine voted for him - esp from the south and east. Toppling an elected government whose election was deemed valid by a vetted group of international observers is what split Ukraine and finally led to this bloody situation today.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/212663/Election_repor...

And if you think the U.S. was not involved, I am afraid that is a extraordinary act of burying your head in the sand. The U.S. was involved even in the earlier Orange revolution in 2004. At that time, the U.S. media was not as sophisticated as it was later. The Guardian and US papers proudly declared the US combating Russian influence and "protecting democracy" by sponsoring protestors! Ukraine was always a tug of war between U.S. and Russian influence but 2014 coup was what broke the Camel's back.

Remember - Nuland is even on record discussing who should hold the reigns after the coup. She didn't want Klitschko in the central government. Too moderate for her. She wanted the Anti-Russian and far-right guy Arseniy Yatsenyuk in power.

And Lo and Behold - Her Prophecy Was Fulfilled! In an interview with Poroshenko, he admitted that Nuland was in Kiev during the time of the Maidan protests. She traveled 3 times during that period, organizing support and supplies for the "democratic movement" - even going to the extent of giving sandwiches to protestors.


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> This is naked Russian propaganda masquerading as enlightened discourse.

OSCE via Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/osce-reports-surge-numb...

Unless Reuters is "naked Russian propaganda" now, there was definitely an uptick in kinetic activity in the Donbas, with most of it falling on the Separatist side of the line of control.


Russia has given each and every excuse that you could possibly come up with in 2014 and again in 2022. If you're a defense industry consultant I'd expect you to be more than conversant with the run-up to the second episode of this war and not to swallow such things hook, line and sinker.

Note that nowhere in that article does it say that the Ukrainian side did that. For all we know this was a provocation, as Russia is won't to do. Alternative explanations have been present many times and none of them have stuck.

Also note that there was an endless build-up prior to the second phase of this invasion which had absolutely nothing to do with that particular incident even if it was done by the Ukrainian side, which I highly doubt given the fact that it was one of the pretexts used.

Finally: in that region there have been many actions by either side and no matter what: the Ukrainians are well within their right to kick out an invader, the myth of the separatists has been debunked solidly, until the little green men showed up there was no meaningful separatist activity.


> Note that nowhere in that article does it say that the Ukrainian side did that. For all we know this was a provocation

If you are asserting that the Helsinki-based OSCE was duped by Russia detonating a bunch of explosions on their own side of the line of control....prove it. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.


The extraordinary claim that Ukrainian shelling of positions in Donbas is why Russia invaded Ukraine is what requires extraordinary evidence. And we already know that claim is nonsense so spare me.


That there was a surge in numbers of explosions in East Ukraine is not Russian propaganda, everyone agrees it happened.

That the surge in shelling was Ukraine-initiated against Russian-backed separatists (and not vice versa coordinated from Moscow as part of the prelude to its own invasion)—and, even moreso, that even if it was, a Ukrainian offensive against separatists in Ukraine (and not even against the openly Russian-occupied part) was a reasonable basis for seeing a threat of NATO invading (or backing an invasion of) Russia—is the Russian propaganda.


Indeed, which is what I was getting at.


Prigozhin himself, one of the primary architects of the invasion of Ukraine, stated that the invasion reason given was bullshit. https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/16721950353732157...

"By February 24th, there was nothing out of the ordinary. Now the [Russian] Defense Ministry attempts to fool society, tries to fool the President, and tell the story of a crazy aggression from the Ukrainian side and they were going to attack us with the whole NATO block."

Not sure how you get more conclusive then that; Putin himself?


So are you asserting that the OSCE was carrying water for the Russian Defense Ministry?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Security_and_...


The only thing the OSCE documented in the article you cited was explosions in the region and a casualty in the government controlled areas from the attacks.

It does not support your (Russia’s, really) claim of a Ukraine-initiated escalation


This page has the PDF of the full report: https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/5...

On page 2, with the map of the Donbas, the vast majority of the explosions are in northwest Luhansk, NE of Luhansk city itself, and North of Donetsk....on the Separatist side of the line of contact.


I do not think he was trying to justify the war was he?




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