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I want colored functions. I want to know which code is running synchronously and which doesn't, which raises errors and which doesn't. Color is just a description of the function's properties (and effects) and how it's compatible with other colors.

There is also nothing fundamentally bad with cooperative scheduling in scope of a single process.




I got into programming in the 1990s. At that point in time, there was still a large contingent of programmers loudly insisting they needed assembly language to do everything. And to be clear, I mean, everything. Not "Yeah, I can't really bring up an OS without a bit of specialized assembly" but "every programmer should write every program in assembly".

The vast majority of them were already wrong. They only got more wrong.

You may just be used to knowing what code is "synchronous" and what isn't because it's been shoved into your face and you've adapted your thought process to it. In practice, "everything important is doing something 'asynchronously'" turns out to be the vast majority of what you need, and the vast majority of your mental energy you are dedicated to splitting the world in two is a waste. For the little bit that remains, by all means use something specialized, but it's just not something that everyone, everywhere, needs to be doing all the time, any more than everyone everywhere should be manually allocating registers, or any more than programs need to have line numbers because otherwise how can they work? (One of my favorites because I remember having that conception myself.)


I think you have your analogy backwards: the "assembly programmer" in this situation is the person who doesn't understand why one would "color" functions and/or express a fundamental property as part of their types. "Why do we need to express this in their type? Every programmer should be able to understand this without help".


To me this kind of sounds like circular reasoning. Without function coloring there's no distinction that you need to know of.

Can you elaborate?


> Without function coloring there's no distinction that you need to know of

Why do you think you don't need to know of it? I want to know if the function I'm calling is going to make a network request. Just because I can have a programming language that hides that distinction from me doesn't mean I want that.

Ideally I want to have the fundamental behavior of any function I call encoded in the function signature. So if it's async, I know it's going to reach out to some external system for some period of time.


> I want to know if the function I'm calling is going to make a network request.

That has nothing to do with function coloring.

> Ideally I want to have the fundamental behavior of any function I call encoded in the function signature.

There is no distinction of async functions if you don't have function coloring that you can encode in type signatures.


> That has nothing to do with function coloring.

Sure, in the same way that types have nothing to do with enforcing logical correctness of software.

> There is no distinction of async functions if you don't have function coloring that you can encode in type signatures.

What are you trying to say with this statement?


getaddrinfo() is a synchronous function that can do network requests to resolve DNS. The network property isn't reflected in its function signature becoming async. You can have an async_getaddrinfo() which does, but the former is just a practical example of network calls in particular being unrelated to function coloring.


It's nonsense. Async in rust is just syntactic sugar around a function signature. You can merrily call async functions from sync rust, you just have to know what to do with the future you get back.


"you just have to know what to do" is the problem. You can call any color from any color, but for some colors it's trivial, e.g. sync function from a sync or async one, or a non-failing function from a failing or non-failing one.

I don't want to be able to call fallible function from an infallible one trivially, I want the compiler to force me to specify what exactly I'm going to do with an error if it happens. Likewise for async-from-sync: there are many ways I could call these: I can either create a single threaded executor and use it to complete the future to completion, or maybe I want to create a multithreaded executor, or maybe I expect the future complete in a single poll and never suspend and I don't even need a scheduler.


Well yes to all that. I still don't see the problem. An async function isn't really an async function, it's a sync function that returns a future. Would it be better if all that was manual? I've done quite a bit of stuff using manual async traits and it's painful and I highly value the syntax sugar that async brings. That said, I certainly don't want some executor running quietly behind the scenes doing async stuff for me without my explicit and full control. If I want to manually poll a future, that's for me to decide.


You seem to raise valid points and I don't disagree with you, however I don't see how it's relevant to the original concern regarding colored functions.


I suppose I'm struggling to understand what "colour" means in the context of Rust. It's surely just another word for signature. For some reason it's trotted out every time there's a discussion about async. I can only assume it's to do with the original use of the term for JavaScript async (which I know almost nothing about and have no opinion on), but I just cannot see its point in Rust async.


It has to do with the fact that most of the code in the project is not async but having to call async functions often propagates all the way to your main function. It's infectious and many people don't like it, myself included, that's why I'm working with Elixir and Golang where async is transparent and 99% automatic, or explicit but non-infectious, respectively.

I do love Rust and found a number of very valid uses for it but its async story leaves a lot to be desired. I don't enjoy writing it though I do enjoy the results.




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