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The ocean has a fever (nasa.gov)
71 points by geox 9 months ago | hide | past | favorite | 66 comments



From the data source at [0]:

> Data are currently available from September 1, 1981.

Seems like a short time range to analyze, but I guess most weather data is recent-ish.

[0] https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/products/optimum-interpolation-sst


I think this is the more comprehensive long-term dataset:

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/products/extended-reconstructed-ss...

Note also the most reliable data on this is probably from the Argo floats, there are about 4000 of them deployed globally (collected data besides SST, such as mixed-layer depth, salinity etc.), since 2000:

https://argo.ucsd.edu/about/status/


Data spans vary considerably.

There are detailed contemporary human observations dating back a couple of centuries, on both land (at specific locations) and sea (mostly via ships logs). These can provide extensive direct measurement and are useful in calibrating other sources.

Remote satellite sensing of course dates back only to the late 1950s, and for the most part useful measurements to the 1970s and 80s. These are useful in being global and detailed, but of course offer limited timespans.

Proxy measures from an incredible array of biological and geological factors and indicators can provide strong indicia of extant conditions ranging from 100s to 1,000s to 1,000,000s of years. Among some that I'm aware of are isotope ratios in trapped gasses (found in ice cores, ranging back ~800,000 years), mineralisation of seashells and seashell-derived limestones (dating back 100s of millions of years), tree-ring data and pollen deposition in lakes and bogs (both dating back 10s of thousands of years), and again isotopic patterns in geological strata (cruder but ranging back billions of years), as well as signs of glaciation (indicating sub-freezing surface temperatures), of ancient seas, lakes, or rivers (indicating sea levels and precipitation patterns), dust deposition in seafloor strata (drill cores from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge were pivotal in determining periods of desertification and temperate climates in the Sahara / North African region), amongst others.

It's of course tricky to directly compare two different data series, but it's possible, and the narrative which emerges is both generally consistent and points to the critical role of atmospheric CO2 and other greenhouse gasses.

<https://skepticalscience.com/surface-temperature-measurement...>

<https://skepticalscience.com/big-picture.html>

<https://scitechdaily.com/66-million-years-of-earths-climate-...>


It's troubling that oceans are warming suddenly, but there is a very likely reason for it: https://www.science.org/content/article/changing-clouds-unfo...


I've wondered whether or not longer term this will have a cooling effect because as the atmosphere clears up, shouldn't clouds become more reflective therefore having a cooling effect?

A whiter cloud not reflect more sunlight back into space?


A contributor to the effect, sure, not a reason in isolation.


You should explain this in detail to the authors of the study so they can issue a correction.


"The obvious and primary driver of this trend is society’s emissions of greenhouse gases, which trap heat that the oceans steadily absorb. Another influence has been recent weather, especially stalled high-pressure systems that suppress cloud formation and allow the oceans to bake in the Sun.

But researchers are now waking up to another factor..."

It seems like they might just already know that.


https://archive.is/MuurG (Parent link without the paywall)


“Pollution cuts have diminished “ship track” clouds, adding to global warming”

So during the age of sailing ships the oceans were warmer?

We’ve likely only had a 100 year period where we had a sufficient number of polluting ship to have made a difference


They're saying that these clouds have blunted the impact of CO2 emissions. Most of the CO2 increase (to ~420ppm) above pre-industrial levels (from ~275ppm) has occurred over the past 100 years; about half of it has only been since ~1990 (then ~350ppm).


> "So during the age of sailing ships the oceans were warmer?"

Highly unlikely, because of the many other factors involved, such as a completely different overall climate situation during that time period; A climate not nearly as heavily affected by human actions as the climate of today, to name just one of the most glaringly obvious factors.


Those images would have more impact if they compared them to the average temperature for August over many years, rather then the average temperature over an entire year.


Absolutely point on. NASA should not leave obvious vulnerabilities to attacks by climate change deniers. People should give more thought to how and what data is presented (with a bow to Edward Tufte and Hans Rosling).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Tufte

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Rosling


Agreed - This link (which I've seen around) seems to do a good job of showing the year over year trend:

https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/sst_daily/


They also need to make everything public facing use the Fahrenheit scale. To Americans, 2 degrees doesn’t sound like too much, but 4 (3.6) degrees sounds like a lot more. Essentially zero people in the U.S. even know that 2 degrees C is almost 4 degrees F.


Could we feasibly just pump a bunch of clouds into the sky and put most of earth into a permanent overcast resembling Seattle?


There are countless habitats and animals that depend on direct sunlight.


The government cannot solve homelessness, but I trust them with modifying the temperature of the planet


How to kill solar with this cool trick


Solar had its chance. Nuclear is the only realistic option at this point.


This type of article, from NASA no less, leaves me with a mixture of negative emotions.

Fear, anxiety, desperation, helplessness. Guilt.

And ultimately it all boils down to a quiet numbness. Not comfortably numb, to coin a song. But vapidly numb. Unable to process any constructive fix for our kids that doesn't sound utterly silly.


If I’m honest, my concerns are way more selfish - climate change is making my city just way too hot and humid to live in. While I’m certainly concerned about the environment, I’m more concerned about my ability to live comfortably for the 3-4 months of increasingly stretched out summers.


the article seemed rather reserved, flat, and emotionless to me. perhaps this feeling is just your reaction to the situation

organizations attempting to implement solutions or achieve progress on this issue are portrayed as irrational and occasionally prosecuted as domestic terrorists, so it makes sense that anyone might feel numb and stupid when thinking about the available options.


Sometimes it's the flat, nonemotional, and direct accounts which have the strongest impact as one comes to realise just what it is that they're saying.

Read through, say, an official air crash report or industrial accident investigation, and slowly realise that what you're reading is an account of how some dozens of souls ended their existence. Often with a chain of events such that once the process had begun, the fate was inevitable, though it might have played out over many minutes or hours, possibly even longer.

In some ways it's an ultimate example of "show, don't tell".


> to coin a song

You're not coining a new phrase with that, you're just referencing an existing song. Coining would mean you created the song yourself. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coin


Yes, we may have finally broken it.

For a little more context:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/F0A3/production/...

Here's the source article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66387537

If the next few summers get even more extreme, we'll probably have to start geoengineering before the end of the decade (starting with spraying saltwater into the atmosphere), consequences be damned.


Should the layperson be concerned with this news?


As ocean surface temperatures increase the atmospheric water vapor over the oceans increases as well. Water vapor is itself a infrared-absorbing gas so this drives additional warming, but this effect is included in climate models and projections of long-term CO2 effects (and has been experimentally tested, e.g. the Pinatubo explosion threw enough dust into the atmosphere in the early 1990s to cool the ocean surface and there was a subsequent drying of the atmosphere that lasted ~7 years).

The main effect on human and economic activity is that increased water vapor means more extreme weather events, as warm wet air holds more energy that can be violently released if a warm wet system runs into a cold dry polar system, so we can expect more major flooding events as these trends steadily continue. Clear-air water vapor also contributes to major heat waves during the summer, so those should continue as well, along with dry conditions in some regions leading to high fire risk. For individuals, this means living in wildfire zones, flood zones etc. has a high risk factor (which is also why insurance companies are fleeing those markets right now).

Practically the rational governmental response would be to put more funds into robust infrastructure (high temps mean high AC demand so more strain on the grid), more funds into emergency response for fires and floods and heat waves, and of course take major actions to eliminate fossil fuels from the energy mix as soon as possible... which is going to be a few decades at best, so adapting to these new conditions is pretty critical.


Absolutely


What can we do?


Ideally? Mobilize like WW2 to decarbonize the economy. Quadruple the cost of fossil fuel via taxes and then use those funds to help the lower 60% or so survive by giving money direct to consumers for food, heating, etc. The markets will rapidly adapt as most tech is there, we just misallocate the hand of government spending.

Realistically since what I proposed above is non-viable? Increase the cost of producing fossil fuels through more direct means, of which discussion is banned on most of the public internet.


"Quadruple the cost of fossil fuel via taxes" - It's not what people want to hear, but this type of taxation will have no practical impact on the fossil fuel use of the world. Any fossil fuels produced and not consumed by the west where those tax regimes exist, will be consumed by the developing world. The overall world use of fossil fuels will continue to increase.

Nuclear does have a hope in changing this dynamic. But even then, fossil fuels have powerful advantages that won't be easily overcome any time in the next 10-15 years, at least.


I'm not gonna pretend I expect anything short of war, be it internal or external, to change things.

By the time it actually happens though it will be too late for a lotta people.

But the parent asked what we _should_ do.


> I'm not gonna pretend I expect anything short of war,

Ya know, it's never the people calling for a war that end up putting it all on the line to actually fight said war.


Wars of oppression sure. This one may be a bit different. As I like to say, arm your friends. What else are you doing with that tech salary.


A war for the preservation of nature and intelligent life is more than worth fighting. Just show me where to sign up.


Taxation to reflect the true cost of fossil fuels can (rather should) be redirected towards mega scale (ie matching the scale of oil extraction industry) actual atmospheric carbon capture, both industrial plant based (to create fuels used to reduce deep extraction fuels) and organic plant based (as plants are pretty damn good at pulling down C02) for sequestration.

The goal is to reduce the amount of CO2 going into the atmosphere by whatever means work.


Does not work in a globalised world as the emissions just move to wherever they are not taxed. Now, you could then tax imports but that’s your own populous paying that tax - and you no longer have free trade. Your exports will be uncompetitive due to the tax you levied on their production and any still-polluting trading partners you slapped tariffs on will respond in kind. End result is wholesale destruction of large segments of the economy (reducing your tax receipts which were supposed to support people) and famine in the developing world.


I've seen the fuel or carbon tax pitched with a program where wealthy states directly subsidize the growth of non-carbon-emitting processes (or a low amortized rate, for instance for the concrete and mining and processing of nuclear fuel)—the non-wealthy states can continue to grow at a similar pace while not sacrificing leverage over the wealthy ones. There are many reasons this likely won't happen, but there certainly are solutions for those searching for them.


Tax the hell out of meat and other animal products as well. Force the world to go vegetarian.


You don't have to do that explicitly. Tax all products by carbon emissions. Tariff all nations that do not participate in such a program.

You don't have to tax beef explicitly when you tax carbon because beef is carbon intensive and so the tax is implicit.

The problem is that carbon pricing is a political 3rd rail and also has no moat, so it's trivially easy for the a conservative government to pander and throw it out.


It seems impossible at times... creating more green energy just reduces the demand for fossil fuels, making them cheaper for other people to use. Reducing one's impact makes space for more people...basically, more efficiency in one place is immediately counteracted by people using MORE resources.

The only solution would be for humanity to collectively agree to make fossil fuels incredibly expensive GLOBALLY...in some way or another. Whether that's through collective action or something else, I guess time will tell.

On most days, I think we are screwed.


That's not the only solution. Another solution would be to come up with a better energy technology that's cheaper than fossil fuels.


That is not really a solution in itself though. As soon as it becomes cheaper, fossil fuel prices will drop due to a drop in demand for them, especially in developing countries. Moreover, more clean energy might mitigate the CO2 problem somewhat but it does not necessarily mitigate our expansion into natural habitats, an expansion that destroys them.

It is simple-minded to think that a single technological breakthrough will suddenly make the problem of climate change go away.


A cheaper alternative energy would reduce usage of fossil fuels even if they became cheaper.

I agree that a single technological breakthrough is unlikely to solve climate change. It will require many. I am simply pointing out that it is incorrect to say that the only solution is a global cartel to make fossil fuels much more expensive.


A magical unicorn that grants wishes would be another solution.


A magical unicorn is about as likely as convincing the world, including poor countries, to make fossil fuels more expensive on a global basis.


80 years ago vast swaths of the world sent a generation of their young people off to Europe and Asia to die for the sake of political alliances. Killing all those people was extremely expensive.

When did we become such losers?


Trying to convince huge numbers of people to become much poorer is a task that would likely require a similar number of dead individuals.


> require a similar number of dead individuals.

That's fine - I'm sure we'll get them one way or another


The price of oil is held artificially high by OPEC so on that front at least I think we’re ok.


"Artificially high" by a factor of maybe 3. We need to look at how to get to a factor of 100 or 1000.

Oil is much, much more valuable in the long term as a material commodity, not a fuel commodity. This can be realized if we bring down the price of power, which is happening, albeit in only part of the globe.


Not high enough. It needs to be extremely expensive for everyone.


Stop ignoring climate science and stop politicising it unnecessarily, then take steps to move to renewable energy and cut down CO2 emissions from all sources. Figure out how to keep oil money out of public discourse.

And do it all 20 years ago. Like everyone was saying at the time.

I’d say I’m disappointed and disgusted at humanity’s collective failure to act in the face of clear evidence. But I had massively low expectations.


> What can we do?

The first thing that I thought of when reading the headline was “more cowbell.” [0]

But in reality the answer is “less cowbell” as bovine emissions are a significant greenhouse gas [1] and cattle ranching in Brasil is linked to deforestation. [2]

0. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Cowbell

1. https://www.ucdavis.edu/food/news/making-cattle-more-sustain...

2. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/amazon...

Edit: added supporting links


Advocate for nuclear power, and advocate for easier zoning of energy projects.


Nuclear is too expensive nowadays and way too slow to build. For comparison we have 368GW of nuclear power in the world (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_nuclear_r....), while just last year we added 191GW of solar power (https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/03/22/new-global-solar-capa....). Solar installations are also growing pretty quickly YoY and it won’t be many years when we’ll be installing the total energy of all the world nuclear power plants per year in solar.


> Nuclear is too expensive nowadays and way too slow to build.

This was a policy choice and can be reversed.


It isn't. We can't build anything big and complicated without costs spiraling out of control. You're going to have to fundamentally change our management approach in this country to get cheap nuclear.


That sounds easier than some of the other ideas on this thread.


Collapse now and avoid the rush


Slow production and make longer-lasting goods.

Become more self-sufficient with more spread out plots of land to reduce shipping.

Explore and expand reusable containers.

Meatless Monday.

Design more efficient water-based appliances like sinks and showers.

Keep moving fwd w EVs.


As sympathetic as I am to these, at its best these make no impact to overall CO2 numbers in the time we need.

At its worst its propoganda to convince people its ok to keep buying things and living as they currently do as the rich abscond with the profits.

If I were you I would be extremely suspicious of media that promotes these kind of tepid measures as effective.


EVs still pollute.


Enjoying the remaining years




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