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Story from a friend. Once, flying on a Russian domestic airline flight, they noticed something like a little shrine at the back. Some black and white photos, flowers, mementos. They asked the cabin crew about it.

Response was, well, the plane had crashed once, killing some people on board, including some staff. So they are commemorated here. But the plane is fine.

Anecdote aside, it's fair to say Russia has a somewhat laissez-faire attitude to safety.




To be fair, in America I don't think we have rules against reintroducing planes involved in deadly incidents, but are still airworthy. The shrine is a bit wild, though.


We have a word for US movies and books portraying Russia: "klukva" (cranberry). Because in every US made movie and US written book amount of lies and confabulations about Russian history and Russian culture is so high, that it deserves a special word.

E.g. I was reading a book recently by John le Carré and had to stop after reading about 50 pages. I simply couldn't continue. E.g. there's a scene where Russian traitor comes to "Chechen" restaurant in the center of St. Petersburg, and orders only a glass of vodka.

Firstly, there are no Chechen restaurants. Especially in the center of St. Petersburg. I don't know why, but anybody living here in Russia wouldn't be able to find any Chechen restaurant in Moscow or St. Petersburg. Russian, Ukranian, Thai, Chinese, Vietnamese, whatever, but not Chechen. Secondly, not all Russians drink vodka, not even majority. Vodka is considered a drink for poor and alcoholics. I don't think it's true, I think that vodka is superior to many other spirits, but that's the typical Russian stereotype. Thirdly, Russian people never order just vodka. We always drink vodka together with substantial food. Not only it is considered a very poor taste to drink vodka without food, it's also absolutely not enjoyable to consume it this way.

And on the cover of the book it was written that the story is very close to the truth, which makes Le Carré special. OMG.

So, this whole story about a shrine in a plane is bullshit.


> Firstly, there are no Chechen restaurants. Especially in the center of St. Petersburg. I don't know why, but anybody living here in Russia wouldn't be able to find any Chechen restaurant in Moscow or St. Petersburg. Russian, Ukranian [sic], Thai, Chinese, Vietnamese, whatever, but not Chechen.

In case anyone was curious, there is a halal cafe called "Брат" ("Brat", meaning brother) in central Saint Petersburg which serves Chechen food and is advertised occasionally as a "Chechen restaurant". You can read the reviews on Google yourself: https://goo.gl/maps/wLi8qCoP8MaQy9Vv9 "Вкусно, как в Грозном!" ("Tasty, like in Grozny!")

Or on Yandex: https://yandex.ru/maps/org/brat/1450497326/reviews/?ll=30.38... "Нам его посоветовали как «чеченское кафе»." ("It was recommended to us as a "Chechen cafe".")

(There is also another cafe called MaggroZ.)


That's great what someone treats the cafe as a restaurant. It doesn't make it a restaurant, though.

And what about vodka in Chechen restaurant?


I've had beers and wine in western restaurants representing cuisine of muslim-majority countries, that's nothing special. Its up to owner to decide whether they want to cater to wider local audience or be strict. For example beers attract a lot of people, we like to pop a small one with lunch as digestive.

I am not saying what is or isn't possible in russia or how chechens are viewed by russian populations, but the whole concept is more than fine elsewhere.


I don't doubt for a minute that Western media is filled with all kinds of ridiculous apocrypha about Russia. At the same time, I've never encountered this kind of ridiculous sensitivity about a country's perception before.

Do you think every American drives a pickup truck and owns 12 guns? You probably don't, because you're not a fool; similarly, most Americans don't think that Russians live their lives swizzling vodka in Chechen restaurants. Le Carré is a novelist, not a biographer.


> I don't doubt for a minute that Western media is filled with all kinds of ridiculous apocrypha about Russia. At the same time, I've never encountered this kind of ridiculous sensitivity about a country's perception before.

You won't find many Russian authors vilifying USA habits and culture. Not among popular ones, for sure. Nor the Russian movies. That makes a difference.

When there's a Russian in the US movie, I mentally prepare myself for a cringe. Usually, it would be a unreasonably aggressive person, killer or terrorist, or just a bad person. Drinking vodka like water, beating women, etc, etc.

You'd have hard time finding anything resembling this in Russian books or movies about USA.


> this kind of ridiculous sensitivity about a country's perception before

What's up with these emotive labels? Lots of people (myself included) enjoy klyukva - it's an awesome source of hilariously absurd content.

But you'd be surprised how often it actually leaks into supposedly serious reasoning, constantly making you question exactly how far (not even "if") the person you are talking to is detached from objective reality and what are their assumptions. There are quite a few examples of this even in this comment section.

Obviously this is not really unique - likely an extremely common view of foreign cultures people aren't really exposed to. The example with Americans isn't representative though since we are all exposed to this particular culture.


I'd say the anecdote about Sarah Palin saying "I can see Russia from my house" is related. Plenty of Americans think she actually said it even though it came from SNL.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sarah-palin-russia-house/


> But you'd be surprised how often it actually leaks into supposedly serious reasoning

I live in Texas and let me tell you I believe I know exactly how you feel. A lot of people's entire perception of this state is based on agitprop headlines they consume. To the point where the other day, on HN, everyone is an expert on Texas energy production and policy desperate to dunk on the state based on a headline about a temporary spike in wholesale energy prices.


But if I live here, then I automatically hold a “Texas energy production expert” card, right?

Actually, surely it’d be a badge. Anyway, I automatically get the badge… right, pardner?


Yes, it's a badge.

My point isn't about being an expert or not, it's about the ability to have honest, reasoned, and researched conversations.


I hear you, buddy. Though this place is generally a pretty good spot to find at least a few folks looking for conversations like that.


Of course there chechen restaurants in St. Petersburg: https://www.google.com/search?q=%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%...

Even more so in Moscow.

Second surprise for you - there are plenty of russians who are poor and alcoholic. There are plenty of russians that drink vodka.

And while it is a poor taste, there are quite a few people in russia with very poor taste.


> Of course there chechen restaurants in St. Petersburg

Even your link proves that it's essentially not the case. Google finds the word "chechen" only twice and then just makes a fair guess that you were actually looking for Caucasus cuisine. Same for Moscow.

> Second surprise for you - there are plenty of russians who are poor and alcoholic. There are plenty of russians that drink vodka.

As is everyone else. What's the "surprise"? Parent wasn't arguing that there are NO people who are alcoholic, poor, or simply drink vokda, were they? They were moking a stereotype.


By the way, John Le Carré was British, not American. No doubt there are dumb passages in American novels about Russia, but I don't see why we should take the blame for John Le Carré.


> We always drink vodka together with substantial food

It's funny that you say this because one of the strongest memories I have of a former Russian co-worker was him telling me that "when you drink vodka, the food must be right there. You drink, then you eat right away. That is the only way to do it." And I tend to remember it as I'm taking a shot of vodka and it always makes me smile.

Alex, I'll have a drink for you tonight :-)


This is all interesting - would you be willing to go on more about Russian vernacular/stereotypes? My background is solely USA and I find it really impossible to learn these things - online. I do think the easiest way would be to go out and make Russian friends and such but - ideally that isn't something I want to really do. I guess I could try to find online communities of Russians, but even then - it is conflating a country to a language (which I think is sort of uniformly spoken in several countries?)


In what time period does the plot occur?


1. In much of the country, people drink vodka like people drink Coke, not oligarchs in Moscow though.

2. Much of restaurants in Russia are indeed Chechen owned. Great many of Japanese, Chinese, Korean restaurants, and street food in general in Russia have Chechen owners.

That the real Russia.


Given the Max 8 debacle [0], I'd agree we don't seem to have many great rules around this.

[0] https://apnews.com/article/boeing-max-crashes-faa-ea8fac0ad2...


The difference in this case is that when the Max-8s crashed they were no longer airworthy and were not re-flown.


After the 2nd. one.


None of the crashed 737 MAX-8s were ever re-flown. This is a conversation about re-flying air frames that have been involved in fatalities. Air frames here means the planes, not the model. The 737 Max-8 is a cautionary tale about a lot of things, but re-flying crashed airframes is not one of the lessons.


You are right - my mistake.


In the West airplanes are also repaired and put back in service after a crash where possible.


E.g. Qantas' fix to maintain a no hull-loss accidents:

https://simpleflying.com/qantas-flight-1-runway-excursion-an...

> However, the aircraft took on severe damage. Its nose and right wing collapsed, and the two right wing engines were damaged. While Qantas did not disclose an exact figure, it cost the carrier less than AU$100 million in repairs, which was significantly cheaper than buying a new 747 at the time.

> Repairing and returning the aircraft to service also helped Qantas maintain its record of having no hull-loss accidents upon the rise of the Jet Age at the time, which also meant the carrier could uphold its safety reputation.


I flew on a Russian domestic flight 10-ish years ago, and people were still lighting up cigarettes on the plane if that says anything.


Weird, smoking on civillian aircrafts was forbidden in 2002.


2002 was only 8-9 years ago.

Source: am a millennial, the math checks out for me


You might want to check what year it is.

There are only two countries that have allowed smoking on planes in the past decade: Cuba, and China.

Both have banned it. China was the last to do so, with their ban on pilots smoking that only began getting enforced in 2019.


Air Canada 143. JAL2. Just a few of the airplanes that have crashed and been put back into service.

It’s pretty common so long as it’s economic. Otherwise, they’ll get stripped for parts.




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