I disagree. Countless studies shows that over the past 20 years, women sexlessness remains unchanged while men's tripled. (10% to 30%). Might even be worse today. Also other studies show women being single in ages 18-30 at 30% while men are at 60%.
If there was a fundamental societal issue (lower wages, great recession, low real estate supply/high prices etc), one wouldn't expect the men's percentages to change by orders of magnitude while the women's to remain relatively unchanged (or not change by orders of magnitudes).
I'm afraid the numbers are too big to gaslight a generation of men whose experiences reinforce this.
Even my own experience, taking a bus to work filled with 250k FAANG engineers, ide bet 80-90% of them are virgins or sexless. Also another anecdotal case where my 50/50 male/female workplace had an event where people brought their spouses (it was funny to notice in a sad kind of way), pretty much all the women (of all varying attractive levels) brought guys but barely any of the guys brough any women. Once i saw the stats, i began seeing it everywhere.
One thing i do agree with you on though is this "What's recent is them getting organised". If they wren't sharing their experiences, guys would think there is something wrong with them as an individual person, but given the percentages, i'm afraid i can only conclude the changes in society withing the past 70 years (and more so the last 20) is causing this.
Happy to be proven wrong tho (but current data and my own anecdotal experience unfortunately shows otherwise)
I agree with the trends, though I'd argue it primarily due to women being more present in the workforce with high-quality jobs. Women have less need to depend on a man, so are able to be more selective up to the point of deciding to remain single vs. pair with someone that doesn't fit for them or just isn't overall a good catch (e.g., not self-aware, not emotionally available, doesn't care for themselves, don't view women as equal in worth to men). Women also delaying decisions to be come a parent - or possibly choosing against entirely - exacerbates the issue to some extent for men in their 20s in particular. Of course it's multifactorial, there is no single explanation.
I do think most incels take the wrong lessons from this and turn relationships into some sort of game, and women are easily-manipulated automatons that respond to muscles, money, and height. But that's really a different conversation.
Focus on muscles, money, and height is a reaction to dating apps. Men see that muscles, money, and height are disproportionately valued on such apps and take note. It's a direct response to dating being more superficial than it was even 20 years ago.
When dating apps remove their height filters, height preference among women becomes less extreme. There's a trend towards removing height filters from apps (at least for the unpaid tier) because having everybody on the app automate height discrimination is bad for literally everybody except the tall. Most men just get rejected and women end up all pursuing the same men to the point of collective irrationality.
Want to solve the problem? Don't scapegoat men or women, target the apps.
Is 20 or 70 years ago the baseline for all of human history? Does that represent how many men are "supposed" to be sexless?
I'm not saying there isn't more or less of an issue with sexlessness in certain ages, or regions, or cultures. I'm just saying that Incel's are an inevitability in every generation.
>Even my own experience, taking a bus to work filled with 250k FAANG engineers, ide bet 80-90% of them are virgins or sexless.
Look at the gender demographics in the areas where 250k FAANG engineers work. Honestly I'm not sure if those are truly Incel's or those are people who value money more than love, I know men making well under 100k full remote who are not that attractive who pull plenty because they moved to where they're high value on the dating market.
The reason we know this is because all of humanity descended from only 40% of the men to have ever lived. The rest might have had sex, but they never fathered children. Most men have died in warfare or to disease or starvation or being trampled by a woolly mammoth or were just plain "not good enough" for women.
80% of women have a living descendant today.
And all this proves is what every "manosphere" personality jabbers on about nonstop... women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationships.
We're just getting back closer to nature is all, and it's about to get worse as opposed to better.
> 70 years ago the baseline for all of human history
IMHO from a intersexual dynamics point of view, yes. (Invention of the birth control pill, abortion being legalized, no fault divorce, feminism, social media) all together was pretty much an inflection point.
I disagree. Countless studies shows that over the past 20 years, women sexlessness remains unchanged while men's tripled. (10% to 30%). Might even be worse today. Also other studies show women being single in ages 18-30 at 30% while men are at 60%.
If there was a fundamental societal issue (lower wages, great recession, low real estate supply/high prices etc), one wouldn't expect the men's percentages to change by orders of magnitude while the women's to remain relatively unchanged (or not change by orders of magnitudes).
I'm afraid the numbers are too big to gaslight a generation of men whose experiences reinforce this.
Even my own experience, taking a bus to work filled with 250k FAANG engineers, ide bet 80-90% of them are virgins or sexless. Also another anecdotal case where my 50/50 male/female workplace had an event where people brought their spouses (it was funny to notice in a sad kind of way), pretty much all the women (of all varying attractive levels) brought guys but barely any of the guys brough any women. Once i saw the stats, i began seeing it everywhere.
One thing i do agree with you on though is this "What's recent is them getting organised". If they wren't sharing their experiences, guys would think there is something wrong with them as an individual person, but given the percentages, i'm afraid i can only conclude the changes in society withing the past 70 years (and more so the last 20) is causing this.
Happy to be proven wrong tho (but current data and my own anecdotal experience unfortunately shows otherwise)