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So, a problem of integration, and not necessarily one of, how did you put it, "mass migration from arab countries and africa".

And those social problems, integration of new citizens and migrants, are much more complex than "stop migration". Because even if you did, what's next? Throwing all those people out that are already there? Also those born there (not just Sweden, in Germany it is the same, not to start with France), or just those without proper passports? Everyone, regardless of passport?

Or, radical idea, just find a way to successfully integrate everyone in society, even if it means the existing society will have to change.




Another radical idea: don’t try to fit a square peg in a round hole.

In which country has importing millions of uneducated people with a diametrically different culture actually worked out?

I have lived in two highly functional multi cultural societies:

Dubai(UAE) for two years, although predominantly muslim people from all over the planet seem to get more or less along. The Emiratis rule with an iron fist, and that seems to do the trick. You even think about joining a violent gang, you’re sent to some prison dungeon for years before being kicked out.

Although I’m sure the same deal would work out well in Sweden which is in general also an authoritarian nation(although they prentend otherwise), I doubt this is what most proponents of multi culturalism envision.

Now I live in Switzerland, a nation that has three distinct cultures for hundreds of years and seem to integrate foreigners from all over the world very well(though not without problems). The difference between Switzerland and Sweden/Germany/France is the system of direct democracy (where every poor decision can be quickly reverted), in general a bottom up decentralized approach and just as important, you have to QUALIFY YOURSELF to gain residence, and to gain citizenship is difficult(and can be revoked).


Wow, you bring up the UAE as good example? You are aware that they basically enslaving their non-domestic, unskilled workforce? If that is your understanding, or view, on human rights and diversity, well, we can stop here.

Also, all rigjt wing people always bring up Switzerland and direct democracy up. Until, that is, the majority opposses whatever those right wingers want. Good luck in Switzerland so.


Please try not to misinterpret what my views are - I’m not your enemy.

Yes, _Dubai_(not UAE) is a good example of a functioning multi cultural society - bear in mind UAE consists of 7 different Emirates, all very different places, independently governed. Hardly perfect, but it’s one of the best examples of multi cultural societies I’ve witnessed.

And you hardly have to be a right winger to like Switzerland - and I find it interesting you think direct democracy is a right wing virtue - wasn’t power to the people what the left used to fight for?

And what’s your best example of a multi cultural country?


Well, not one that has actuap slave labour, like Dubai. Among a ton of other human rights violations. Switzerland gets close enough, and my point was the fact in Germany swiss direct democracy is constantly brought up by, e.g., the AfD. Until, that is, a majority actually supports stuff like gay marriage, then all.of a sudden democracy is a lot less interesting.

That you did not see how low skilled labour in Dubai is treated, housed in ghettos, passports withheld and labor contracts sold, is a pitty. And advocating for Dubai style enforcement against "violant gangs", your point, is hardly something that is compatible with western democracy and freedom as written (in spirit it is getting erroded on a daily basis lately).

Germany is another example, e.g. Berlin, despute what media would make you believe.

Switzerland is, like most European countries, a nice place for qualified folks, preferably white. Poor non-whites, well, all.of a sudden things are less rosey. Still better then elsewhere, but place for improvement.

Mass migration from the middle east and africa so is not necessarily an unsolvable problem, Germany took loads of refugees, up to the point it anbaled the AfD and extreme right, but there were hardly any problems with it. Integration is lacking, but that is, as I said, a point for both, newcomers and those already there. If newcomers are basically marginalized, one doesn't have to wonder crime is a result. Or frustration (France shows this with their problems integrating 2-4 th generation people in their banlieues).

And power to the people, I am all for it. One has to be vigilant so that the means of handing power to the people are not abused by populists and extremists, and ultimately abolished. History has examples of how that happens, we should avoid allowing it again.


I believe I understand Dubai a lot better than you do. Have you been there?

I worked closely with the laborers from Bangladesh, Pakistan and India for two years, installing heavy machinery.

In general, they are not badly treated at all. Their living conditions are closer to being in the army. Dubai has done a lot to stamp out bad actors. Taking the passport is now illegal (though it still sometimes happens). One foreman had saved up 250,000 Dirhams and intended to start and electrical contractor company back home in Pakistan.

People from Western Europe seem to think 99% of these guys are slaves - they are not. They go to Dubai to get some of that sweet oil money.

It if mass migration from the Middle East and Africa is not an unsolvable problem(just really really hard), why bother? What is the advantage?

Further, I don’t agree that there should be any limits what power the people has. I want 100% direct democracy(naturally with a guiding constitution, that can be changed)




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