What I said is far closer to the truth than the picture you’re trying to paint.
Antimaidan protests were organic and covered by many Western outlets. No green men.
Donbas and Strelkov and Motorola are not the same as “little green men” in Crimea.
Russia had the right to station up to 25K servicemen in Crimea.
These or “green men” were also called “polite men” because it was widely reported that they didn’t do anything. The stats you cited are comparable to stuff that routinely happens in the US and other countries, NOT an armed invasion like in Iraq or Libya. Not even close. You try to conflate them to somehow make the case that “Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014” because you need it for a rhetorical chess move to “win” something — rather than intellectual honesty.
Now, Russia did arm and train terrorists against the Ukraine government, and that was very destructive. I admit that and condemn them for it. I also put it context to say that, sadly, this happens all over the world, usually with CIA doing it, and if you really care about this phenomenon you should discuss it everywhere and not just this one case. Yes, that is exactly the spark that lights the fire of civil war and proxy war.
That’s what we SHOULD focus on preventing, instead of blame games.
And Russia is squarely at fault for training the rebels. But also others symmetrically. If USA didn’t train the other side then Minsk II would have been implemented long ago.
The ONLY thing I will grant to the US which makes its training and arming more legitimate than Russia here is that it was helping the government of a sovereign country maintain control of a region. But in Syria it was the EXACT opposite with the sides switched, and you don’t have the consistently opposite analysis. USA is sither right all the time regardless of whether it trains militants against the government or for it, or perhaps you want to be consistent but just don’t bother?
As far as “vacationers”, um USA had PMCs in Iraq, all over the place for years, but claimed “no boots ok the ground” and “end of operations”. And by your standard, what do you call US army vets fighting in Ukraine right now? Are they “NATO boots on the ground”?
I think Motorola and Strelkov are the analogue of Manuel Norriega. USA even had the School of the Americas to train people like that. What is the relevant difference? And once again I want to say IT IS BAD. My prescription is always:
* Don’t train and arm terrorists
* Don’t get involved 3000 miles away
* Force public servants to engage in diplomacy before authorizing any violent operations
* Force all meeting between politicians to be on video
* Favor electing people who tend towards deescalation
You are so caught up in the blame game that you spend nearly no time discussing the SOLUTIONS I propose, which are universal for people of all nations to demand. Your “solution” is to keep volunteering people 3000 miles away to die in yet another “forever war” until a fantasy scenario plays out, or — more realistically - new politicians are votes in and everyone forgets and moves on from “the latest thing”.
Antimaidan protests were organic and covered by many Western outlets. No green men.
Donbas and Strelkov and Motorola are not the same as “little green men” in Crimea.
Russia had the right to station up to 25K servicemen in Crimea.
These or “green men” were also called “polite men” because it was widely reported that they didn’t do anything. The stats you cited are comparable to stuff that routinely happens in the US and other countries, NOT an armed invasion like in Iraq or Libya. Not even close. You try to conflate them to somehow make the case that “Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014” because you need it for a rhetorical chess move to “win” something — rather than intellectual honesty.
Now, Russia did arm and train terrorists against the Ukraine government, and that was very destructive. I admit that and condemn them for it. I also put it context to say that, sadly, this happens all over the world, usually with CIA doing it, and if you really care about this phenomenon you should discuss it everywhere and not just this one case. Yes, that is exactly the spark that lights the fire of civil war and proxy war.
That’s what we SHOULD focus on preventing, instead of blame games.
And Russia is squarely at fault for training the rebels. But also others symmetrically. If USA didn’t train the other side then Minsk II would have been implemented long ago.
The ONLY thing I will grant to the US which makes its training and arming more legitimate than Russia here is that it was helping the government of a sovereign country maintain control of a region. But in Syria it was the EXACT opposite with the sides switched, and you don’t have the consistently opposite analysis. USA is sither right all the time regardless of whether it trains militants against the government or for it, or perhaps you want to be consistent but just don’t bother?
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/03/us/politics/american-comb...
As far as “vacationers”, um USA had PMCs in Iraq, all over the place for years, but claimed “no boots ok the ground” and “end of operations”. And by your standard, what do you call US army vets fighting in Ukraine right now? Are they “NATO boots on the ground”?
I think Motorola and Strelkov are the analogue of Manuel Norriega. USA even had the School of the Americas to train people like that. What is the relevant difference? And once again I want to say IT IS BAD. My prescription is always:
* Don’t train and arm terrorists
* Don’t get involved 3000 miles away
* Force public servants to engage in diplomacy before authorizing any violent operations
* Force all meeting between politicians to be on video
* Favor electing people who tend towards deescalation
You are so caught up in the blame game that you spend nearly no time discussing the SOLUTIONS I propose, which are universal for people of all nations to demand. Your “solution” is to keep volunteering people 3000 miles away to die in yet another “forever war” until a fantasy scenario plays out, or — more realistically - new politicians are votes in and everyone forgets and moves on from “the latest thing”.