The problem with the Airbnb review system is that very few people are willing to leave a candid review because (1) it seems like bad manners when renting from an individual (as opposed to a large corporation like Hilton), (2) future Airbnb hosts can see your reviews and they might decide that you're a troublemaker and not want to rent to you, (3) the host might leave a response to your review that makes you look petty, or demanding, or exaggerating, or just silly.
So what you get is a hundred 5-star reviews where "everything was lovely" and one 5-star review that sheepishly says that "everything was lovely though it was a little noisy at night but I brought my earplugs so it was no problem after all".
But as an upside, I think it's much harder to game or manipulate Airbnb reviews than Amazon reviews. It's just that hardly anyone will list all the negatives; every property has some negatives even if you loved your stay. Many negatives won't even matter to other renters: some might care about low ceilings, cluttered cabinets, low water pressure, or too few electrical outlets. Others couldn't care less. But at least you could make selections based on things that would matter to you.
I don't know what solution to propose. Maybe if Airbnb had unannounced professional reviewers stay a night at every property and do very comprehensive critiques? (I know, this would be costly.)
Airbnb frequently / often seems to remove negative reviews; it has happened to me before - it has happened to others I know even for positive reviews with a caveat in them.
Yep, I’ve had multiple reviews removed for being ‘off-topic’. No recourse there, I tried debating airbnb support for a while on it, but eventually gave up.
The system is a little more nuanced than that because there is a "private review" portion of reviewing where you send a final message to the host specifically about the things they can improve about the space they are renting. The review isn't posted publicly. The host can also send an equivalent review to the guest.
This presents a more honor-based opportunity to leave a review that doesn't risk reputation but still gets a message across. It's honor-based because the host and guests have little pressure to improve from the reviews they receive privately. You don't always need to publicly humiliate people if you have an experience that isn't 100% perfect.
What can a host do about low ceilings for example? It's something that matters greatly to tall people or people that feel claustrophobic. But this is the kind of thing that practically no one will mention in a public review and it might not be discerned from the photos. It's not about humilating anybody. It's candidly stating the positives and negatives so you can make better choices.
Yes, some review systems wait until there are enough reviewers to try to keep things anonymous..
I think the problem with AirBNB is that their entire site collectively functions as one hotel chain that may collect a higher percentage of the take to corporate than a normal chain does. They are not actually more interested than Sheraton in having a lot of truth on their site causing listings to go unrented or not collect what they would have per night.
Fair enough, that is one misaligned incentive, but also if bad reviews don't pressure hosts to do better, people will just book a hotel instead where the quality is more consistent. It does seems like many businesses don't/can't optimize for anything other than the first-order effects.
Times like this I wish there was an airbnbreviews.com site (yelp?). Ofcourse DMCA and frivolous defamation suits will kill this before arrival! Plus how do you prevent malicious contnet (like so-and-so lives here and here are the plans).
I've had maybe half a dozen friends do the part time AirBNB host thing and I've helped a few of them in managing their business.
You have a lot of leverage when booking month long stays, especially in off or shoulder seasons in highly seasonal towns. It's more work but there's a lot you can do to mitigate risk by doing appropriate due diligence.
I'd recommend at least hopping on a video call with the hosts and ask them basic things like how far away they live from the unit, who you should contact if there are issues, etc. It's pretty easy to tell from a 10m phone call who has a hospitality mindset or not. It's also possible to ask them for a video walkthrough of the apartment as it currently exists where you can inspect how close it is to the listed photos.
Especially for new hosts who desperately need credible reviews to increase their rankings, there's a lot they are willing to do for a reasonable guest, including substantial discounts on the list price. They're also desperate for feedback so tend to be fairly responsive to requests for missing things in the kitchen or upgrades to certain appliances as it's a fairly small investment that will payback over a long period of time.
Overall, people have forgotten how to bargain and negotiate as the platforms ostensibly provide a neutral layer that obviates all that but it's a very leaky abstraction and there's still just humans on both sides of the transaction.
We did this for a year or so just before Covid, through Europe with 3 kids, driving around and towing a trailer between locations. We stayed 2-6 weeks at a place, generally a house outside major metro areas. (for parking and price purposes)
My wife got really good at doing geoguessr to find out the exact location prior to booking. Between that and the review filtering, we never really had a bad stay. Though the one place in Spain halfway down a narrow 1 lane drive with a 12% grade, that one was tricky.
* I think we had one place with decent knives.
* Most places had enough pots and pans for basic cooking, never matched. Though, Matching isn't really an issue for me. The one place that advertised a gourmet kitchen was one of the least usable I've ever dealt with.
* Most places had a working corkscrew.
* One place had a still. (Small, tabletop distilling apparatus). That's the most unique. It was also wood heated, and we were there over Christmas/New Year's.
Since we had the trailer, we had boxes of our stuff -- the kitchen box, the electronics box, the linen box.
I've been living in Airbnbs in Latin America and Europe while working remotely. One of the major challenges is making sure the Airbnb has good wifi.
A lot of hosts won't know what mbps means or will say something like "I'm sure the wifi is good. We did a video call a couple of months ago with Aunt Sally in London ..." It's easy to eliminate these options, but you have to message them, etc.
The worst is when the host is living in another unit on another floor or next to you. They'll do a speedtest for their place and the speed will look great, but in reality, the Airbnb will have much worse internet (in one case it was about 100x difference than advertised). Sometimes, they won't even buy a separate router for the Airbnb and claim the speed in their apartment as the speed for the Airbnb.
>
A lot of hosts won't know what mbps means or will say something like "I'm sure the wifi is good. We did a video call a couple of months ago with Aunt Sally in London ..."
A good WiFi network does not imply that the WiFi network is connected to a fast internet connection. ;-)
I know what you mean, but usually for us the problem is the opposite. The internet connection is fast, but the WiFi is horrible. I've learned to always carry an ethernet cable, but that doesn't solve everything.
I second this. Many hosts will say something "netflix works fine for me", but that's likely cached nearby and is super latency and jitter tolerant. And damned too if they don't say that, it'll be terrible.
I lived this lifestyle for about two years, and the biggest problem I ran into was that Airbnb has terrible, terrible customer service. If the property owner/manager fucks you over (I had many who demanded I sign additional agreements I had never seen or reviewed after paying and arriving at night to sleep), Airbnb generally won't do anything about it.
That and dirty, dusty, allergen-filled rentals. I never thought of myself as an especially clean or fussy person, but after those years I came to realize I am in the top 90-95% of people for cleanliness.
I've stayed in over fifty Airbnb in the last three years. Only three haven't worked out (misleading apartment, mouse-poop kitchen, unresponsive host). Each time Airbnb has sorted me out with a refund, called me to discuss the problem, helped finding an alternative place, and providing a voucher to cover any price gap.
I stayed at a place in Switzerland where we had a backed up drainage system due to the apartment upstairs flushing makeup wipes. The host accused us of flushing baby wipes (we use reusable cotton ones), left us with a bath full of sewer water hoping we'd pay to fix it.
Then, when the lady in the apartment upstairs had her shower in the evening, the toilet overflowed, spilling out into the living area, into the toddler's room, out the door, dripping down the stairs.
Not an ounce of help from AirBnB. Got a couple of callbacks from a call centre that sounded like it was in India, but there was no action of any kind. Got a negative review from the host (amongst many other things, she was upset that we weren't grateful enough that someone came around to clean up the mess her negligence at the first report of backed up drainage had caused), and I closed my account. I will never use AirBnB again and I will tell this story to everyone who mentions them for as long as I live.
A 5% failure rate seems pretty high for something like this. I've never had a stay at a hotel where any problem wasn't immediately worked out by the front desk giving me a different room.
I am doing this currently and have been doing this for the past 2 years. It looks like the author is mostly in Europe/North America (judging from the youtube videos), whereas I'm mostly in Africa and parts of Asia.
> When you go with an Airbnb, you’re typically renting from another individual, not a professional business.
I try my absolute best to stay with individuals! They seem to care a lot more than agencies. I try to stay in places where the owner lives nearby, maybe they built another house on their land or split their apartment in 2 etc.
When I was traveling along the garden route in South Africa, the hosts would invite me over for a braai (BBQ) or have a beer together. When it's a real host/guest "relationship" people care more about their properties and the guest experience. When people outsource their management to an agency, it just becomes another investment and people are completely detached from it and the people that stay there.
On the topic of knives, I travel with my own. That's unavoidable in my opinion. I also travel with an electric grill (george foreman ripoff) because I _hate_ cooking meat on electric hobs (that aren't induction based).
> Of course, we’ve definitely learned a lot from our mistakes over the past couple years. As soon as we started traveling full time, we realized that our budget of $1,200 USD a month was way too low.
That's my upper budget, I try to stay closer to 1,000 USD.
Protip from my side if you're crashing Airbnbs full-time: bring a knife sharpener. I've yet to see the Airbnb that actually had a usable set of knives. Typically all dishes are whatever cheapest you can get at IKEA.
Hence "feasible". I can also bring a knife roll through airports, as long as it's checked in. And if I'm on the road full-time I imagine I've got something else that I couldn't carry on anyway. Or I might consider the extra hassle of checking luggage in to be worth having my knives on me. I try to travel carry-on only as much as I can and I could definitely see myself preferring to bring my knives.
It is important to familiarize yourself with local laws regarding knife possession. Certain jurisdictions, such as Japan, may consider knives over a specific length as weapons, even if they are ordinary kitchen knives, when carried in public. Additionally, some types of knives, including dagger knives, are prohibited regardless of their size. If you are found carrying such knives, you could potentially get into legal trouble. However, in certain circumstances, such as when transporting a knife from one location to another, you may be released without prosecution, though it can still be a hassle to go through the process.
Does the homepod mini do anything differently when you're in an airbnb vs how you would normally use it at home? Like does it become a WAP or something?
I’m currently living this lifestyle for the past 5 years and I can say I’m exhausted from it.
It’s fun and rewarding but it can also be very annoying and atrocious quick. Airbnb support was always good to me at getting refunds but nothing else.
I’ve had all levels of hosts and such. You really need
To be ready to move with the punches and book farther ahead to get the best deals. Even a 2 week out reservation helps tons from filtering the last minute bad places that no one else wants.
Photography on Airbnb is everything. I’ve seen horrid pictures and the place was amazing and then it worked for me because of poor forecast I could book with the host cheaply, direct with no worry about guests booking.
I’ve also been fooled with amazing photos and “fantastic” reviews but the place was absolutely meh. The reviews on Airbnb are pretty worthless, people protect their rating at all cost and will not write bad things. I actually get better insight from new guests writing their first reviews vs “experienced” ones and fearfully I’ve just write reviews good and above - if I had a bad experience I won’t document it, the chilling effect is to strong and future hosts can see what reviews you leave.
I also use it as a host so that works a lot too - I’ve had many host say they had competing reservation requests and chose me because of more reviews and also being a “host.”
It is conflicting. But to reiterate it is exhausting - you do live out of a suitcase or two and that can be freeing or exhausting
> The reviews on Airbnb are pretty worthless, people protect their rating at all cost and will not write bad things. I actually get better insight from new guests writing their first reviews vs “experienced” ones
Lack of honest reviews is a real problem. I cannot write the small things because it will doom a host, and if I write the big things, I risk that the host reports my account and I can’t use Airbnb again.
The last time I used Airbnb renting a room, I wrote a five-star review containing words that said the host probably needed to update the pictures, since they don’t showcase the wood workshop he had installed into the room. So yeah, slightly less cozy way to show your wife your work city living in a wood workshop.
Thanks. I think some of us (well me) are more suited to holidays than travelling as a lifestyle. It is the contrast from the normal that makes it exciting.
AirBnb kitchens are the worst. The only real benefit to an abnb over a hotel is having a kitchen, but they are mostly useless. I've never been in one with decent knives. Typically they have cheap non-stick pots and pans that are badly scratched leaving you the option of eating PFAS or ordering in. One time I had to run around town looking for a can opener so I could feed a very hungry dog. Other times I've had to open cans with a knife -- which I guess explains why the knives are so bad.
Don't get me started about internet quality (poor to variable at best). Or how difficult it is to find a decent work area (hosts seem to put beds EVERYWHERE. I presume they think that upping the number of people who can sleep there justifies higher rents? A desk and chair would go a long way).
And every review is 5 stars, so completely useless. Unless you have the time to read every word carefully looking for a hint of something not working, there is no working reputation system at all.
I'd read that PFAS are used in the manufacturing of nonstick pans but aren't present in the final product, but I was wrong. PFAS regularly are found in nonstick pans, even ones labeled PFAS-free, and you eat them when you use that (scratched) pan.
Western society spent the past hundred years figuring out how to regulate hotels and apartments. Venture capital hit the reset button and now people are content farming the shitty results. Amazing.
Until we have a legal framework that makes it easier to remove ineffective laws than to add new bureaucracy with a ratchet effect, then yes, hitting reset occasionally is an excellent idea.
I never found anything about US hotel laws to be ineffective. I have been aware of the horrors that can meet with travelers in unregulated housing, and whether I visit a Motel 6, Best Western, or Hilton, I can be assured that the unit will be safe, secure, and sanitary to some minimum standard, and that all charges and fees will be above board.
I am a person who still rides taxis because I believe that these "disruptive" app-based services are a blight and a curse for the consumer market. I wouldn't dare risk life and limb to stay in an AirBNB across town, much less on another continent. I am grateful for the extensive regulation of these industries, and I invite regulators to bring the startups toward equity in all aspects.
> I am a person who still rides taxis [out of principle]… I wouldn’t dare risk life and limb in an Airbnb across town
You seem very risk adverse and pro-establishment. Your perspective is a bit of an edge case, as demonstrated by the enormous value people find in Uber and AirBnB. I’m old enough to have lived with the taxi system for a couple decades when it was the only game in town(s) - it was awful. The few times I’ve had to ride a taxi lately, they’ve been noticeably better than they were back in the day — and that is entirely a consequence of competitive pressure. The taxi business was a textbook case of oligopolies protected from any free market pressure and the inevitable shitty quality that results from such. Cry all you want about Uber’s downsides, but the taxis are now better because of Uber. Any proposal to go back to a taxi system exclusive of ride-sharing should, I think, find a way to avoid the market protection and rent-seeking racket from local governments. Even Uber hasn’t been wholly immune from this (e.g. the early airport allowances).
AirBnB is kind of a different thing than Uber, but it’s nice to have systems that enable options from the institutions/corporations, and that enable private parties to conduct commercial transactions with other private parties. In principal I’m for more of that resource leverage.
Airbnb was nice in the beginning, but I've had my share of stays where I paid >$100 in cleaning fees and still found myself staring at a list of chores a mile long that really made me question whether I shouldn't instead be getting paid to clean the place.
Funnily enough, recently I've noticed that the professionally-managed Airbnbs are much more reasonable about not needing to clean every nook and cranny before leaving, with the small-time hosts imposing much more of a burden. So I'm essentially back to staying at a hotel.
In my opinion, business reviews on Google maps have replaced the need for any official standards. They also allow for the option of effectively having your own standards, rather than a single government mandated standard.
True, but when one of your issues is "I like a clear space in an apartment I'm renting for a month, and I had to spend a day decluttering!" that's a problem that's a privilege to have.
Especially when you're having it in an apartment that is no longer available for locals to rent because your American money goes a lot further than their money.
AirBnB privileges the landlords and subjectively wealthy travellers over the locals. This is well established.
(I admit that my snark got fired up when I read their complaint in an article linked from this about an apartment in Ukraine that only had two comfortable chairs out of four, because their two dogs that they're travelling with would hog the comfy chairs.
Firstly, travelling with pets is expensive, aa privilege to be able to afford on top of the usual cost of travel.
Secondly... ...tell your dogs to get off the human chairs.)
You're technically correct, but how is this relevant? Most of HN audience works in tech and is pretty affluent, so it is a perfectly good place to discuss problems of privileged people.
I guess I want people to at least acknowledge how privileged we are.
When you don't like your apartment in Ukraine because it only has two comfy seats and your dogs you brought from the USA have claimed them, at least acknowledge how lucky you are.
I've lived in Airbnbs on and off for the past few years and am currently 6 months in a row. Quality is really a roll of the dice.
I use a travel router which solves most internet problems that are fixable.
The biggest issue for me is that it's so much work due to a a lot of small things. You have to constantly learn where the light switches are, how to master the shower, etc... I rarely even bother hooking my chrome cast to the TV anymore. These seem small but they steal your time and cause mild frustration. It's worse because you know it's coming again. I'm hoping to get a real apartment soon.
I used AirBnB a few years ago, but eventually I stopped since the customer service was absolutely trash and I never felt as comfortable or well-accommodated as in actual hotels/hostels. People do all sorts of shit in their own homes and there are no standards of cleanliness. And vica-versa, maybe you and your friends destroy a hotel room after a night of drinking and debauchery--well, there are literally hundreds of other rooms in the building, and each room is designed to be as replaceable as parts in a factory line. AirBnB tries to mimic the "rustic" effect of what it used to be like back before industrial capitalism--you'd stay in a small guesthouse in someone's home, there was a personal touch, you'd be introduced to members of the local community. But no! All AirBnB gets you is an even deeper sense of alienation than staying at some 5-star hotel a five minute walk from a slum (something I've done myself, both in the "slum" and the hotel). Who were these people I was staying next to...was I allowed to talk to them? What was this neighborhood devoid of other tourists, what was I supposed to do here, what did it offer me other than a sense that I was in a place where I didn't belong and would never belong.
You forgot to add 'why am i now pointing all these things out that others definitely won't think of'...
Seriously, strange thoughts you had there.
I hate this pseudo-anonymity of hotels, having to pass the reception area multiple times day & night (ever noticed how they look at you when you bring your own food from the supermarket?), maybe even needing to return the room key all the time, being disturbed by cleaning staff (and getting a note stating "we couldn't clean your room for like 3 days, please see us the reception" when you leave the sign out), ...
Nope. Just nope. And even worse: All these other travelers around, most are typical tourists.
They aren't going to have a bed that's great for everyone, but hotels have generally figured out how to have a bed that most people don't think is terrible, which is a bar that AirBnBs frequently don't clear.
I didn't suggest it is straightforward, I said they need a system, precisely because it isn't straightforward. Hotels in other reply a good suggestion.
So what you get is a hundred 5-star reviews where "everything was lovely" and one 5-star review that sheepishly says that "everything was lovely though it was a little noisy at night but I brought my earplugs so it was no problem after all".
But as an upside, I think it's much harder to game or manipulate Airbnb reviews than Amazon reviews. It's just that hardly anyone will list all the negatives; every property has some negatives even if you loved your stay. Many negatives won't even matter to other renters: some might care about low ceilings, cluttered cabinets, low water pressure, or too few electrical outlets. Others couldn't care less. But at least you could make selections based on things that would matter to you.
I don't know what solution to propose. Maybe if Airbnb had unannounced professional reviewers stay a night at every property and do very comprehensive critiques? (I know, this would be costly.)