Ask HN: How did you get out of an echo chamber?

[WhyIsItAlwaysHN]

As a person, I've had to get out of echo chambers multiple times in my life. The first time I figured out I was stuck in one was in high school when I understood that the religious ideas parroted by my parents and some close friends were not unique to this religion, but even more importantly were often things that they hadn't really thought deeply about, blocked by taboos and peer pressure from even discussing them. Even more interestingly however, that was not what led me to question those beliefs. It happened much later due to a personal acquaintance who showed me a different religion with which I was short-term obsessed with, until I realized the inconsistencies of both my original ideas and the new ones. The point of this anecdote is not to point out that religion is an echo chamber, but that it was an echo chamber from my point of view since almost everyone around me held the same or very similar beliefs and attempts to question them were met with disdain and disapproval.

Some factors which I think made it hard to detect the echo chamber were the following: 1) There were always default, emotion based answers to respond to common doubts arising in people new to the ideology (children in this case) 2) Doubts which exceeded some limits were met with dismissal and accusations of non-believing instead of reasonable discussion. This invariably caused self-doubt or cognitive dissonance until you would rationalize an idea forcefully. 3) The ideology was deeply connected with many aspects of every day life. You could not have a "proper" marriage without adhering to the rules. There were specific rules for how to behave and what opinions are acceptable. 4) Non-adherance to the rules was met with concern for your well-being or was treated as a betrayal. 5) Multiple authority figures (eg. school teachers) would take the responsibility of teaching the group ideology in addition to what they were supposed to be authoritative on. 6) There was a binary, two uncompromising sides, us vs them 7) Most importantly, there was the illusion that all "normal" people in the world share our common beliefs and if they don't, then they're either misguided, stupid or evil.

Unfortunately, even knowing these signs, it's hard to not get trapped yet again into other echo chambers. Sometimes within these chambers there are people I admire or plain like. Sometimes their ideas can be liberating when you are stuck in another echo chamber. Sometimes it feels good to boost my sense of superiority by mocking the other "dumber" groups. But all of this can have an isolating, stressful and even toxic effect on my life if and when it happens.

So I'm asking to get inspired by you. How did you detect your echo chambers and how did you get out? Also has this helped your life in any way?

[tgflynn]

With the high level of self awareness that you've developed as evidenced by this post I would think you would be largely immune to falling into the kind of traps you're worried about. Maybe you should ask yourself why you don't trust your self enough to avoid such traps in the future ?

I think there is also a risk in becoming too skeptical or even cynical. I agree that there is much in most religions that is not useful and can sometimes by very harmful yet at the same time I think many religions contain elements of truth that are worth being open to.

My recommendation would be to approach all ideas with openness while maintaining a healthy amount of skepticism. Try to find the nuggets of gold without becoming burdened with tons of sand.

[dangitnotagain]

Underneath it all, it is all echo chamber. Your awareness and insights you have gained are your greatest asset in developing yourself as a more full being.

Remember however, it is all echo chamber. That is what people freak out about on psychedelics, or when a doomed hypocrisy runs it’s full course (mid life crises, challenging existential epiphanies, etc.)

You’re just missing that everyone else struggles with their own sooner or later (normalcy is a fraud.) Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance anyone?

This is the nature of the mind, and the interface with the world it composes.

One might consider the mind and consciousness to be exactly that, an introspective echo chamber, and these entities of thought you’ve found influential are kinds of memes.

Memetic thoughts are viral information which infect and take on their own forms, eventually influencing the host and propagating themselves!

In ancient times people who come to such realizations became ascetics (sic., Siddhartha, or even Jesus, or the quarter billion who followed their trend) or alcoholics, or maybe philosophers (Rumi?)

Here are some witty self inoculations I came up with in my own time:

- undeceive the self. In a Universe governed by entropy, ignorance and confusion is the natural state of mind.

- Happiness is not the ultimate pursuit for the wayward person, fulfillment is. Sometimes one must sacrifice happiness to gain fulfillment.

- know that the present state of humanity is not its highest form. Before we were all driven useless or insane by modernity (something to do with delegating this personal responsibility that may only be resolved on one’s own), there are so many stories and accounts of greatness among us scattered throughout history. They must be found out! Follow the coattails of some notable historian or three. Learn more about how humans were before everything was spoken for. Know more about what you are than what you’ve come to assume!

Good luck!

[WhyIsItAlwaysHN → dangitnotagain]

-Happiness is not the ultimate pursuit for the wayward person, fulfillment is. Sometimes one must sacrifice happiness to gain fulfillment.

This turned on a light bulb for me, so I really appreciate you sharing your point of view. Specifically, I feel that it helps a lot with my issue of having analysis paralysis to frame things in terms of fulfillment rather than happiness.

I will try to come up with some innoculations of my own going forward.

[giantg2]

What echo chamber... chamber... amber... ber...?

I don't really care too much about echo chambers themselves. It's more about the effect if you don't do your own research. With the right mindset, you can survive in one.

An easy way to check yourself is to seek out opposing views, try to build the thought models in your head, try variations on those models. Depending on the constituents' attitudes it might be a good idea to keep your new ideas to yourself if you want to remain part of the group.